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B1013 – Nationalisation of British Rail Services Bill 2016 Watch

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So are you proposing a referendum on nationalisation of the railways?
    Not at all, but I'm pretty sure nationalisation would win.
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    Not at all, but I'm pretty sure nationalisation would win.
    It's also clearly a very low priority to most people, nationalisation also doesn't deal with the main issue people have.
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    A governing body that fines private companies for not meeting targets and ensuring greater competition between firms for the same rail region by leasing the region for only 10 years would be more effective. There simply isn't enough punishments in place to make companies such as Southern Rail And Govia Thameslink fall in line. Thus they continue to under-invest in their infrastructure and instead give dividends to their shareholders. However, I am wholeheartedly against the nationalisation of rail services considering it did not work in the past costing the government enormous amounts of money due to running a deficit and the structure of the company being inefficient.

    To conclude, a governing body similar to the CAA (Civil Aviation Authority) would ensure greater competition between rail firms for rail regions thus increasing the quality of the service provided.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    It's also clearly a very low priority to most people, nationalisation also doesn't deal with the main issue people have.
    I would say transport is a fairly major issue to people, given it governs their daily commutes and leisure travel. And a low turnout would mean a very high vote for nationalisiation I would argue anyway, so my point on it winning is justified if you are right on it not being a priority.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    The reporting on the Italian train crash implied that head on collisions are far from uncommon in Italy, on our far more extensive network how long was it since the last severe incident? How heavily loss making is the Greek network, despite being tiny?
    We are not Italy or Greece.
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    From the current Southern Rail crisis, it is clear that some of rail services are very poorly managed to say the least. I'm wary of heavy nationalisation but rail services is one of the things that really should be nationalised.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    It's also clearly a very low priority to most people, nationalisation also doesn't deal with the main issue people have.
    It is not a low priority to those who travel every day into London or other cities. Poor trains are not just found in the south-east, as i found out when travelling to see a football match in the north west a few years ago.
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    Would be nice to have an idea of how much this would cost.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    Would be nice to have an idea of how much this would cost.
    I'll refer you to post 7 which has the costings. They some how got missed off the OP, we'll make sure they're included for division (or second reading).
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    (Original post by cBay)
    I'll refer you to post 7. Costings some how got missed off the OP, we'll make sure they're included for second reading or division.
    Cheers.
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    Considering the profit margins for train operators is 3% and the current subsidies are 4 billion a year, this idea would be completely insane.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Considering the profit margins for train operators is 3% and the current subsidies are 4 billion a year, this idea would be completely insane.
    Except you can obviously write off the subsidies this way.

    -------------------------------------------

    Given the coordination problems of this market means that a competitive market is impossible, there are literally zero benefits to private ownership of the railways.

    A strong aye.
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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    Yep, I was really waiting on thehistorybore to re-apply first.
    Sorry, I'm back now!
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    Except you can obviously write off the subsidies this way.
    .
    Well, you are not writing it off. You will still be paying it.

    On top of that the Government will be responsible for administering the other 6bn in costs that is taken up the Train companies.
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    I have a bill of my own (hoping to get final amendments sorted tomorrow for a Saturday release) and believe it's a superior set of proposals to this one so Nay. I guess MP's will have two proposals to vote on in division at probably the same time though (three if both fail as canon is different).
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Except for having one of the cheapest networks in Europe (I invite you to look at prices in France, and Germany, which I would hope you will accept aren't too dissimilar) for long distance travel, we have some of the lowest subsidies, and one of the best quality services (only Finland saw higher satisfaction), and to say they have so many more high speed lines, they aren't actually much faster.

    We pay about 40% the subsidies per passenger km than the French, and about a third that of the Germans



    Did I expect anything less? No. How about comparison to the days of British Rail, I guess that;s ridiculous too, right?
    But all the newspaper companies say that that we have the most expensive network. :confused:
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    (Original post by RavioliDance)
    But all the newspaper companies say that that we have the most expensive network. :confused:
    As will be included in my notes on Saturday there has already been a review into this which found that off-peak fares across the network as a whole are actually comparable to other western european nations, it is peak fares which are much higher.

    Two reasons..

    1) Network Rail is inefficient and unable to control its costs, with significant overspend.

    2) Probably the biggest reason for the peak time difference is that in the UK rising costs are fed to the consumer through higher ticket prices, on the continent its much more common for costs to be paid by the taxpayer.

    If you vote for this bill in its current state then you won't actually make a significant material difference because margins are relatively low and you will shaft the taxpayer (including those who don't use the rail network) because the railways as a whole are loss making (a cost which would now be borne by the taxpayer).
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Well, you are not writing it off. You will still be paying it.

    On top of that the Government will be responsible for administering the other 6bn in costs that is taken up the Train companies.
    You also take on the (gross) profits. It's pretty clear to see that, assuming ceteris paribus, a nationalised system costs less (and my argument is that ceteris paribus essentially holds here).
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    (Original post by barnetlad)
    It is not a low priority to those who travel every day into London or other cities. Poor trains are not just found in the south-east, as i found out when travelling to see a football match in the north west a few years ago.
    They did a good job of showing it

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by RavioliDance)
    But all the newspaper companies say that that we have the most expensive network. :confused:
    Depends how you look at it, but look for yourself. As Rakas said, the biggest difference is where the cost is, the continent subsidise the commuter routes more, but that shifts the cost burden, and onto the poorer, rather than reduces it.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
 
 
 
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