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Angela Eagle drops out of Labour leadership bid Watch

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    Smith will have the right to lose to Corbyn. Farewell Labour, you were a lean mean election fighting machine. The likes of Abbott, McDonnell and others make you look like a protest group.
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    (Original post by meenu89)
    Smith will have the right to lose to Corbyn. Farewell Labour, you were a lean mean election fighting machine. The likes of Abbott, McDonnell and others make you look like a protest group.
    Lean mean terrorist assisting child abuse enabling machine.

    Good riddance.
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    (Original post by viffer)
    Uninspiring and deluded leadership challenger discovers that her peers don't think as much of her as she did of herself.

    It's the same for Corbyn in the PLP of course but the difference is that Corbyn has the backing of the overwhelming majority of the members of his Protest Cult. Those are predominantly naive young people with no life experience plus a few 70s throwback.
    No one seems to want to attack Corbyn on his policies, it is always his so called unelectability. Labour don't have anyone electable with its current policies. My life experience has shown me that we have only ever had government by the lesser of two evils.
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    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
    Ironically, if Gisela Stuart were to defect I think the Tories would welcome her with open arms.
    Same with most of the rest of the 'New' Labour Mps.
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    (Original post by meenu89)
    Smith will have the right to lose to Corbyn. Farewell Labour, you were a lean mean election fighting machine. The likes of Abbott, McDonnell and others make you look like a protest group.
    Not a protest group a Socialist Party. At least give the electorate some choice, rather than between Tory and Tory lite.
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    (Original post by Aliccam)
    No one seems to want to attack Corbyn on his policies, it is always his so called unelectability. Labour don't have anyone electable with its current policies. My life experience has shown me that we have only ever had government by the lesser of two evils.
    What policies? He, the leader of the PLP, spoke against official Labour party policy in the HoC (which is to renew Trident) and one of his reasons for being against having a nuclear deterrent is that it failed to prevent the Rwandan genocide in the 1990s.

    Is that the behaviour of a politician capable of critical thinking and in full command of the arguments?
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    What policies? He, the leader of the PLP, spoke against official Labour party policy in the HoC (which is to renew Trident) and one of his reasons for being against having a nuclear deterrent is that it failed to prevent the Rwandan genocide in the 1990s.

    Is that the behaviour of a politician capable of critical thinking and in full command of the arguments?
    His mention of Rwanda was in the context of the troubled times we are in internationally are not the kind that nuclear weapons will have any effect on.
    The PLPs ideas old fashioned ideas about Trident are one of the policies Corbyn would like to change, as would the members and a lot of the electorate.
    In addition to wanting to get rid of nuclear weapons -
    Here are some other policies
    He is against austerity and cuts to public services
    He wants a decent minimum wage.
    He wants to stop zero hours contracts and the general undermining of fair pay and conditions,
    He wants to stop the privatisation and under-funding in the NHS.
    He wants to build enough housing so people can afford to buy or rent without using half or more of their earnings to do it and lead a life of debt.
    He wants to abolish tuition fees so everyone from whatever background can have access to university without saddling themselves with a mountain of debt.
    He wants to invest in the UK industry and public services, and stop them being at the mercy of profiteers.
    He is against war.
    He is against nuclear weapons, their danger, and the ludicrous waste of resources they represent.
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    (Original post by Aliccam)
    The PLPs ideas old fashioned ideas about Trident are one of the policies Corbyn would like to change
    But he hasn't and, until he does, it is official Labour policy to renew Trident, and the leader, if he does nothing else, should lead the party in fulfilling its official policy.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    But he hasn't and, until he does, it is official Labour policy to renew Trident, and the leader, if he does nothing else, should lead the party in fulfilling its official policy.
    The Labour Party supports multilateral disarmament, a matter deliberately excluded from the current bill put to the vote. Therefore all Labour Mps should have voted against the bill. Corbyn allowed a free vote, but many Labour Mps voted for the bill against the Labour Party's view on multilateral disarmament.
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    (Original post by Aliccam)
    The Labour Party supports multilateral disarmament, a matter deliberately excluded from the current bill put to the vote. Therefore all Labour Mps should have voted against the bill. Corbyn allowed a free vote, but many Labour Mps voted for the bill against the Labour Party's view on multilateral disarmament.
    I don't think you understand what multilateral disarmament is. It is not getting rid of our own nuclear weapons first and hoping the others will follow our example. That is unilateral disarmament.

    It is keeping our own weapons until they can be negotiated away with everyone else's.
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    (Original post by Aliccam)
    No one seems to want to attack Corbyn on his policies, it is always his so called unelectability. Labour don't have anyone electable with its current policies. My life experience has shown me that we have only ever had government by the lesser of two evils.
    Corbyn is unelectable because of his policies.

    He is stuck in the dark ages politically. He is old enough to remember the havoc caused by the likes of Red Robbo, Scargill etc. Do people really (I mean, really ffs) think the country as a whole would be better off if it was run by the likes of Michael Foot, Dennis Skinner, Jeremy Corbyn. Hayzoos Holy Christo

    Don't get me wrong, the rich getting much richer at the expense of some at the back of the gravy train has its down sides but it is the entrepreneurs/captains of industry (yes, the so-called fat cats) that create the job opportunities for the proles.

    Corbyn and his cronies want a Robbing Hood style of society/economy where the earned wealth of some is taken to give as subsidies to those further down the food chain.

    The spectrum in my comments above exclude the hereditary sticking rich and the unable to work through disability poor health. Too many people get the breeks in a fankle by focusing too much on those extremes. It would be better to have a system that addresses the issues at those ends but relatively speaking, they are in the minority. The problem I have with the likes of Corbyn's POLICIES is that he does not get how a effectively functioning economy must operate to benefit the majority of the people it serves.

    The overwhelming majority of people in the UK who are both centre right or left see and understand that and is why we will not see a far left Government led by Corbyn or his ilk.

    Does that do the trick in explaining why Corbyn is unelectable?
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    I don't think you understand what multilateral disarmament is. It is not getting rid of our own nuclear weapons first and hoping the others will follow our example. That is unilateral disarmament.

    It is keeping our own weapons until they can be negotiated away with everyone else's.
    I understand the difference between multilateral and unilateral. You were talking about whether he was right or wrong to vote against this specific bill, which had been deliberately written to exclude multilateral disarmament.
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    (Original post by Aliccam)
    You were talking about whether he was right or wrong to vote against this specific bill, which had been deliberately written to exclude multilateral disarmament.
    How does renewing Trident make multilateral disarmament impossible? It can be abandoned by treaty at any time.
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    The only thing Owen Smith cares about is Owen Smith. I hope he is well and truly exposed for this during the hustings. This bizarre stance of backing unilateral disarmament yet being unwilling to press the button is hazy. Plus I can't stand his superficial pandering to the left with the idea of making Jeremy 'president'. Clearly it's a position of irrelevance. The grassroots members won't be persuaded by this fickle man.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    Do you think it could be anything to do with her whiny nasal speaking voice.
    Nothing to do with gender BTW, compare her voice to Mrs May. So much easier and pleasant to listen to.
    Ken Livingstone is similar, even if he was electable as a pm, which thank God he ain't, that voice would be a major hurdle for many.
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    (Original post by viffer)
    Corbyn is unelectable because of his policies.

    He is stuck in the dark ages politically. He is old enough to remember the havoc caused by the likes of Red Robbo, Scargill etc. Do people really (I mean, really ffs) think the country as a whole would be better off if it was run by the likes of Michael Foot, Dennis Skinner, Jeremy Corbyn. Hayzoos Holy Christo
    There were some problems with the new wave of union power in those times, but things have moved on, and since the removal of union power the pendulum has swung completely the other way. This is history and has little bearing on where we are today.

    Don't get me wrong, the rich getting much richer at the expense of some at the back of the gravy train has its down sides but it is the entrepreneurs/captains of industry (yes, the so-called fat cats) that create the job opportunities for the proles.
    Corbyn and his cronies want a Robbing Hood style of society/economy where the earned wealth of some is taken to give as subsidies to those further down the food chain.
    The polarity between the top and bottom, has been increasing at an alarming rate under the current system. Those making the most money are actually producing nothing and in 2008 caused a massive crash, messing up the economy for both the people and industry. The rich are sucking wealth from everyone unchecked, via any means possible and advances in technology designed to labour save are being exploited to their advantage alone. Taking money from these people will not impact entrepreneurs, but help redistribute wealth back to the 99.9%.

    The spectrum in my comments above exclude the hereditary sticking rich and the unable to work through disability poor health. Too many people get the breeks in a fankle by focusing too much on those extremes. It would be better to have a system that addresses the issues at those ends but relatively speaking, they are in the minority. The problem I have with the likes of Corbyn's POLICIES is that he does not get how a effectively functioning economy must operate to benefit the majority of the people it serves.
    He has a very good understanding of how the economy really works, and it is not the fiction that is being peddled by the establishment. Their is phenomenal wealth in the country, it needs to be distributed much more evenly. This is not about moving wealth from the middle to the bottom it is about moving wealth from the very top to everyone.

    [QUOTE}The overwhelming majority of people in the UK who are both centre right or left see and understand that and is why we will not see a far left Government led by Corbyn or his ilk.
    Does that do the trick in explaining why Corbyn is unelectable?[/QUOTE]
    The overwhelming majority of people do not even know how the economy now works, and until someone takes on the establishment they never will. If Corbyn is ever allowed to speak to the electorate they will start to find out.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    How does renewing Trident make multilateral disarmament impossible? It can be abandoned by treaty at any time.
    In 2007 when they originally passed the bill it included the pursuit of multilateral disarmament as a policy. Now it does not.
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    (Original post by Aliccam)
    There were some problems with the new wave of union power in those times, but things have moved on, and since the removal of union power the pendulum has swung completely the other way. This is history and has little bearing on where we are today.
    Ahem, aren't you basing on your arguments on what should be done on history? Albeit more recent history.

    And what you're arguing for in terms of having Corbyn at the helm would take your pendulum BACK to those 'dark ages'. The UK would become an economic lost cause if we have Corbyn, Abbott, etc in Government with the likes of Len McCluskey calling the shots with MPs on their payroll.

    **** that for a game of soldiers.

    Many young people are attracted by the romanticism of the redistribution of wealth but have no concept (obviously) of the chaos that prevailed when the Left run the show.
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    (Original post by viffer)
    Ahem, aren't you basing on your arguments on what should be done on history? Albeit more recent history.

    And what you're arguing for in terms of having Corbyn at the helm would take your pendulum BACK to those 'dark ages'. The UK would become an economic lost cause if we have Corbyn, Abbott, etc in Government with the likes of Len McCluskey calling the shots with MPs on their payroll.

    **** that for a game of soldiers.

    Many young people are attracted by the romanticism of the redistribution of wealth but have no concept (obviously) of the chaos that prevailed when the Left run the show.
    There were some problems such as with union closed shops, and abuse of power and strike action, but during the same period real wages rose, and ordinary working people became much better off. The real 'chaos' at the time was caused by the response to Thatcher's blunt instrument approach to tackling the unions. Corbyn is not in any way proposing a return to these times anyway. His main policies are to raise the minimum wage and protect workers from exploitation through things such as zero hours contracts, poor conditions and low pay. Invest in public services and restore free university education for all.
    By the way I am not young, I am a mature student.
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    (Original post by Aliccam)
    In 2007 when they originally passed the bill it included the pursuit of multilateral disarmament as a policy. Now it does not.
    Bills are not policy statements.
 
 
 
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