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    (Original post by MyBloodisBlue)
    Hitler is more electable then Corbyn
    Hitler, was indeed, extremely electable.

    If only a neo Hitler would come along for the labour party huh?

    Maybe Owen Smith can be Hitler lite? **** on a few migrants. Electability is all that matters huh?

    **** the migrants. Gas them for the greater good of a labour victory.

    National socialism ftw.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Defence is the most fundamental responsibility of a government, and Trident is the most fundamental element of our defence posture. A party/candidate who seeks to undermine that will not get my vote. The second most important element of our defence posture is our approach to fighting terroristic Islamofascism; any candidate or party who proposes that we seek a peace deal with murderous, genocidal rapers of ISIS will not get my vote.

    Regardless of the "posturing" (as you call it), the underlying policy substance is that the Conservatives support Trident and will not undermine it in the way Corbyn proposes.

    Corbyn's speech about Trident yesterday was also so rambling and incoherent that I cannot have any confidence in his judgment as Prime Minister. He claimed that Saudi Arabia's intervention in Yemen demonstrated that the UK's nuclear deterrent doesn't work; it's a deranged and bizarre argument that calls into question much about his thought process and perceptions
    I simply don't put as much weight on those things as you do given that we are not suffering much in the way of terrorism or military threats from nuclear powers, and also my conviction that any government whatever its colour will act rationally (or at least as rationally as any other...) in such circumstances despite what rhetoric they put out, even a Corbyn government.

    Indeed if Corbyn somehow got into power and actually tried to get rid of Trident it probably wouldn't get out of the cabinet room, let alone through the Commons, and even if it passed I suspect we might be closer to a military coup than we have ever been throughout modern history.



    That is a very strange position. As a Labour Party member you have to resign your membership (or you can be expelled) if you vote for another party. The honourable thing would be to resign your membership if you intend to vote Lib Dem. It also seems somewhat confused for you to consider support for both Corbyn and the Lib Dems given they are so far apart on the political spectrum and on policy. Pretty much everything Corbyn believes on economic policy is incompatible with the Lib Dems ideology and their actions when in government
    The stakes are in my mind too high for honour lately anyway, but I am in a period of flux and uncertainty which mirrors that in both major parties and politics in general.

    One understands why the Labour Party is entitled to expect that Labour members should only ever be voting Labour (even in a Tory/Lib Dem marginal?), but I think dogmatic tribalism is counter-productive and anachronistic, especially when the country faces an acute crisis.

    You could say that, given how close Labour is to splitting, under your precepts Labour members on both sides should be suspending their membership until such time as they can be certain whether they still support the party's policies. As it is, especially given how polarised things are, it surely hangs in the balance for every Labour member whether they might not be voting for someone else in any forthcoming general election.

    The main reason for my vacillation is that I am emphatically pro-Remain, which almost alone informs my near-term preferences. In the longer term I favour the libertarian left operating on top of strong nationalised public services, which sheds some light on how I can manage to waver between the Lib Dems and Corbyn's Labour - remember of course that all the Lib Dem orange bookers got kicked out at the last election as their voters went to the Tories.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Hitler, was indeed, extremely electable.

    If only a neo Hitler would come along for the labour party huh?

    Maybe Owen Smith can be Hitler lite? **** on a few migrants. Electability is all that matters huh?

    **** the migrants. Gas them for the greater good of a labour victory.

    National socialism ftw.
    If you gave me Hitler or Corbyn I would vote Hitler. I could not care about Migrants, my priority is British People
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    (Original post by MyBloodisBlue)
    Hitler is more electable then Corbyn
    That's not actually an insult, or surprise. Although I think you got your tense wrong.
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    (Original post by MyBloodisBlue)
    If you gave me Hitler or Corbyn I would vote Hitler. I could not care about Migrants, my priority is British People


    lol
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    That's not actually an insult, or surprise. Although I think you got your tense wrong.
    Good because I think Europe is on its way to a second holocaust this time ridding Europe of Muslims instead of Jews
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Hitler, was indeed, extremely electable.

    If only a neo Hitler would come along for the labour party huh?

    Maybe Owen Smith can be Hitler lite? **** on a few migrants. Electability is all that matters huh?

    **** the migrants. Gas them for the greater good of a labour victory.

    National socialism ftw.
    The Labour Party's view (Corbyn and Oily Smith) of its own (former) voters.

    If you oppose uncontrolled immigration you are a Nazi:

    We support uncontrolled, unlimited immigration, even though you HATE it, so vote for us! We know best stupid, racist, working class people!

    Result?

    The death of a party which speaks for no-one but a small metropolitan elite, and a few naive, out of touch students.

    Read the country's lips post Brexit:

    SUPPORT IMMIGRATION CONTROLS, LABOUR, OR YOU WILL DIE.

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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    They're loyal to a man who is a genuine honest politician. One of the very few we'll see in our lifetimes. Of course we are loyal to him.
    But he's not genuine and honest. This is the personality cult the person you quoted was talking about*
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    While I do believe Labour is unelectable under Corbyn, do bear in mind that Theresa May will be going through a "honeymoon period" at the moment.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    He is not honest at all. He campaigned for the UK to leave the EU for decades until he became Labour leader and realised many of his strongest supporters would not stand for that. So he backflipped on decades of anti-EU campaigns, only to go ahead and undermine the pro-EU campaign during the referendum.

    He damned the EU with faint praise, his staff removed pro-EU statements from his speeches, he went on holiday during the referendum campaign (at a time when many from Labour were working very hard to campaign to stay in). Around half of Labour voters were under the impression the party's policy was to leave which likely had an effect in Labour heartlands. He made a very tepid case for staying that had the effect of confirming the fears of working people (he had even planned during the referendum campaign to go to Turkey to give a pro-immigration speech, which is madness given the sensitivities of that issue during the campaign). He also said that while we are in the EU there's nothing we can do about immigration and that it is unlimited (not true, and in the situation extremely counterproductive).

    So he lied and was dishonourable twice; first when he pretended to be pro staying in, and second when he still went ahead and campaigned in a way that would tend to bring about a Brexit result.

    Also, shortly after he became leader he and McDonnell signed up to Osborne's budget austerity pact. Shortly after that they changed their minds, but it shows that they're not all that opposed to austerity if they were willing to consider signing up in the first place



    This whole thing about Corbyn being a living saint, the only honest man in politics, is part of the whole personality cult that we're seeing in the Labour Party. I do not see what is so honest and moral about him given he accepted gifts from lobbyists and enriched himself with money from a regime that murders gay people and stones women.

    Now Labour members say "But whatabout Saudi Arabia?". What about it? How does the existence of a regime which kills gay people and stones women (Saudi Arabia) make it okay for Corbyn to do business with a regime that kills gay people and stones women (Iran)?

    As for the gift he took from a lobbyist, Labour members say "But all politicians do it". Well, not all politicians. But that excuse underlines that Corbyn is no different from other politicians, only that he cloaks himself in this mantle of pure morality which makes it even more hypocritical for him to take lobbyist gifts

    The long and short of it is that Corbyn is incompetent and dishonest, and he's the most unpopular opposition leader since polling began. Labour will never win a general election with him as leader. If his supporters are just a personality cult then they won't care what effect it has on the party; if they are truly about the party and about the policies and ideas, then they will advise him to step down
    Bang on the money*
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Now Labour members say "But whatabout Saudi Arabia?". What about it? How does the existence of a regime which kills gay people and stones women (Saudi Arabia) make it okay for Corbyn to do business with a regime that kills gay people and stones women (Iran)?
    A lot of his palling around happened while he was but a backbencher, what place do they have to do such things?
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    The first poll since Prime Minister May's elevation looks quite good for the Conservatives.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/



    The polls have been quite good for the conservatives recently, mostly holding on to about an 8 point lead. Even though May has said she won't hold an election until 2020, it will surely be very tempting for her to lock in that lead and take hold of those extra seats before Labour can get its act together.

    Labour has also said they will support an election motion (as required by the Fixed Term Parliament Act) so the path is open for it to occur
    ONLY 10!!??
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    I simply don't put as much weight on those things as you do given that we are not suffering much in the way of terrorism or military threats from nuclear powers, and also my conviction that any government whatever its colour will act rationally (or at least as rationally as any other...) in such circumstances despite what rhetoric they put out, even a Corbyn government.
    Wanting to empower Palestine while disarming ourselves is like giving someone heavy boots and spreading your legs.
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    (Original post by MildredMalone)
    Wanting to empower Palestine while disarming ourselves is like giving someone heavy boots and spreading your legs.
    You think Palestine is going to hit us with a nuclear first strike?! Now I've heard it all, you should be writing for the Telegraph
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    You would seriously vote on the basis of idiotic, posturing rhetoric on Trident? (May's "yes!" yesterday was no less so.) This has absolutely no bearing on what politicians would actually do in that situation (or do you believe May's "yes!" indicates she wrote "yes!" in the letters of last resort??), which is something we can be thankful for - that we are that far from nuclear war that we have the luxury of using Trident as a frame to hang a meta debate about principled leadership on.
    It is posturing but it is not idiotic. For deterrence to have value the enemy has to believe the weapons will be used.

    The letters probably say what they have always said; place yourself under the command of whichever Five Eyes leader our Prime Minister has most confidence in.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    You think Palestine is going to hit us with a nuclear first strike?! Now I've heard it all, you should be writing for the Telegraph
    Well, not quite. But they're among the places that it is really stupid to try to help.
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    (Original post by MildredMalone)
    A lot of his palling around happened while he was but a backbencher, what place do they have to do such things?
    A lot of it was not just inappropriate, it tells you that Corbyn has poor moral judgment and a lack of principles.

    His employment relationship with Iran was probably the worst. They lock up journalists and trade unionists, execute gay people and stone women. People with normal moral values would not take that blood money, but it tells you that Corbyn views anyone who is an enemy of the West as his friend based on "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". It leads him to associate with some very unpleasant far right crackpots
 
 
 
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