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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    However, Islam has these books and they justify violence.
    So what? Humans have a conscience, Islam isn't holding a gun up to peoples' heads and forcing them to kill.

    You blaming these murders on Islam is as stupid as blaming MacDonalds for obesity. Its the peoples' conscious choice to go there, they aren't being force fed this stuff.
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    (Original post by nexttimeigetvpn)
    So what? Humans have a conscience, Islam isn't holding a gun up to peoples' heads and forcing them to kill.

    You blaming these murders on Islam is as stupid as blaming MacDonalds for obesity. Its the peoples' conscious choice to go there, they aren't being force fed this stuff.
    So the idea, which they believe will get them to heaven, is telling them to kill. Is it too hard to understand why some of them kill?
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    i sponsored a goat through Oxfam
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    That's because it is business as usual there, we have been hearing about crazy **** going on in the middle east for decades.
    Really? The whole family the Middle East? Anyway, you have already proven that talking to you is a waste of time and kills brain cells (laughing at a little girl being attacked then justifying it with things that are completely irrelevant). Ignored.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    So the idea, which they believe will get them to heaven, is telling them to kill. Is it too hard to understand why some of them kill?
    Nowhere in Islam does it say killing innocent people = first class ticket to Heaven. And again, its a conscious choice these people make. Islam isn't forcing them to. Even if Islam is 'strongly encouraging' people to kill, these people make the final choice, and its not the fault of some 1500 year old scripture, written for a completely different type of society.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Really? The whole family the Middle East? Anyway, you have already proven that talking to you is a waste of time and kills brain cells (laughing at a little girl being attacked then justifying it with things that are completely irrelevant). Ignored.
    Oh dear, I never laughed at that post, and if you genuinely believe I did I suggest you reread what I wrote. My point is, that people get used to thing, I am so so sorry if that fact of life hurts your feelings.

    (Original post by nexttimeigetvpn)
    Nowhere in Islam does it say killing innocent people = first class ticket to Heaven. And again, its a conscious choice these people make. Islam isn't forcing them to. Even if Islam is 'strongly encouraging' people to kill, these people make the final choice, and its not the fault of some 1500 year old scripture, written for a completely different type of society.
    No, but It does say that you have a duty to kill heathens and people of the book who don't pay the Jiyza.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    I think that some people are genuinely worried about ISIS because they have been scared that it will affect them, since they have expanded their terror attacks to Europe and some of the refugees have been fleeing to Europe. When they were just murdering and enslaving Brown people in Iraq and Syria, few cared. I bet that hardly any of them know what the longest and bloodiest civil war (which is still happening now) is.
    I'd actually say it's more that after Iraq, Afghanistan &, to a lesser extent, Libya, the West didn't really want to get involved in the Middle East again militarily. ISIS kind of forced our hand when it looked like Baghdad was on the verge of falling.

    It's also not uncommon for the outside world to leave Civil Wars to the two/multiple internal factions within that country. However once regional stability comes under threat then the outside world is forced to act.

    Would you have preferred to leave Assad, ISIS, Shia militants etc to slaughter each other (and hordes of Muslim & Christian civilians) or taken action to remove them (or at least weaken them/force them to the negotiating table).
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Oh dear, I never laughed at that post, and if you genuinely believe I did I suggest you reread what I wrote. My point is, that people get used to thing, I am so so sorry if that fact of life hurts your feelings.


    No, but It does say that you have a duty to kill heathens and people of the book who don't pay the Jiyza.
    This is just pointless mate.

    'Heathens' is open to interpretation. These people actively designate innocent citizens as opponents of Islam, that is a conscious human choice that is made and not something Islam specifies.

    Furthermore there are no consequences, no specifics - these people make up the rules as they go along, its a human decision that is being made to kill these people.

    A 1 and a half millennia old scripture is not responsible here, it is humans and our attraction to violence and competition, catalysed by the Arab spring and various other conflict which has turned these peoples' lives upside down.
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    (Original post by I feel myself)
    More so it's sad to see the less serious problem attracting more coverage. And if we are to get even serious, terrorists attack are more prominent in some places in Africa, but alas, we don't give af
    Well even if those in power don't care, we can still make a difference by donating and sending aid. We won't forget them.
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    (Original post by nexttimeigetvpn)
    This is just pointless mate.

    'Heathens' is open to interpretation. These people actively designate innocent citizens as opponents of Islam, that is a conscious human choice that is made and not something Islam specifies.

    Furthermore there are no consequences, no specifics - these people make up the rules as they go along, its a human decision that is being made to kill these people.

    A 1 and a half millennia old scripture is not responsible here, it is humans and our attraction to violence and competition, catalysed by the Arab spring and various other conflict which has turned these peoples' lives upside down.
    It is pointless pointing out what their holy book says? Heathens isn't open to interpretation, it is people who are atheists or who worship a non abrahamic religion, people of the book are Christians and jews.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    It is pointless pointing out what their holy book says? Heathens isn't open to interpretation, it is people who are atheists or who worship a non abrahamic religion, people of the book are Christians and jews.
    I suggest you read this. The things that Islam says have a context, and evidently anyone with a computer can go around taking quotes out of context to paint the image that Islam is violent.

    Maybe it is violent, but as I said, people have a conscience and the Quran is not forcing them to kill. These people are antagonised by hatred and they commit these awful things at their own will. A vague passage which implies that killing non-believers is the right thing to do does not brainwash these people into murderers.
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    (Original post by nexttimeigetvpn)
    I suggest you read this. The things that Islam says have a context, and evidently anyone with a computer can go around taking quotes out of context to paint the image that Islam is violent.

    Maybe it is violent, but as I said, people have a conscience and the Quran is not forcing them to kill. These people are antagonised by hatred and they commit these awful things at their own will. A vague passage which implies that killing non-believers is the right thing to do does not brainwash these people into murderers.
    "Out of context", I cannot see any context that can justify such verses, they are pretty self-contained and self-explanatory. You could get a love letter from a 10/10 girl/guy, but if there is one line that says that they would like to kill you, you are going to notice and take action on that, aren't you?

    EDIT: Just went and read the preceding verse, and again, they seemed like pretty unambiguous statements.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    "Out of context", I cannot see any context that can justify such verses, they are pretty self-contained and self-explanatory. You could get a love letter from a 10/10 girl/guy, but if there is one line that says that they would like to kill you, you are going to notice and take action on that, aren't you?
    As I said, read the link, you evidently clicked it and closed it within about 5 seconds.

    And a letter written by someone saying that they will kill you is entirely different to a holy scripture written 1500 years ago. Not sure why you embarrassed yourself with that comparison.
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    (Original post by nexttimeigetvpn)
    As I said, read the link, you evidently clicked it and closed it within about 5 seconds.

    And a letter written by someone saying that they will kill you is entirely different to a holy scripture written 1500 years ago. Not sure why you embarrassed yourself with that comparison.
    I read the entire link, he uses the example of jesus for suna 3 and the battle of badr for suna 8. These are quite clearly teachings that have been justified by events.

    Regardless, that is two quotes out of literally thousands.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    I read the entire link, he uses the example of jesus for suna 3 and the battle of badr for suna 8. These are quite clearly teachings that have been justified by events.

    Regardless, that is two quotes out of literally thousands.
    if you think that's all it says then you didn't read it

    i'm done here, you're evidently going to perpetually argue that an ancient ideology is to blame and not the people who choose to warp it.
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    (Original post by I feel myself)
    More people die in Africa due to famine and hunger each day but we don't give af about them but as soon as there's a terrorist related attack, killing a dozen people or so, we pretend like we really care.

    What is wrong with all you stupid people? Why don't you donate to try and help famine in third world countries and try and help things that really matter rather than posting sh*t about ISIS, of which little can be done about them
    The answer to your facetious question is simple. Europe, North America and most of Eastern Asia are supposed to be safe countries. We dont expect terror attacks here on a daily basis. We DO expect terrorist attacks in the middle east and africa, so there is less of a surprise.

    So obviously we care more when attacks happen where they are not expected.

    Hope that answers your "question".
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    (Original post by nexttimeigetvpn)
    if you think that's all it says then you didn't read it

    i'm done here, you're evidently going to perpetually argue that an ancient ideology is to blame and not the people who choose to warp it.
    This is ridiculous, you don't just do something for no reason, and this seems like a very strong reason. Just because the majority of muslims do nothing doesn't mean that islam isn't responsible, since, as I have stated, the Ideas and the history of islam shows very adequate justification for this action.
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    (Original post by Tempest II)
    I'd actually say it's more that after Iraq, Afghanistan &, to a lesser extent, Libya, the West didn't really want to get involved in the Middle East again militarily. ISIS kind of forced our hand when it looked like Baghdad was on the verge of falling.

    It's also not uncommon for the outside world to leave Civil Wars to the two/multiple internal factions within that country. However once regional stability comes under threat then the outside world is forced to act.

    Would you have preferred to leave Assad, ISIS, Shia militants etc to slaughter each other (and hordes of Muslim & Christian civilians) or taken action to remove them (or at least weaken them/force them to the negotiating table).
    That wasn't my point; it is normal for countries (not just Western ones) to be self-serving. No country wants to use its wealth and resources to intervene in another country if the detriments are seen to outweigh the benefits; it will be against the interests of the intervening state. Do you think that the 2003 Iraq invasion was done with good intentions? Saddam Hussein was always a brutal dictator, yet at one point he was referred to by the US government as "a son of a b**** but our son of a b****", and at another point (when he began to act outside of Western interests and it became evident that he was a loose cannon), suddenly his atrocities were being recognised and he needed to be removed in order to "free" the Iraqi people.

    Similarly, intervening to prevent the ethnic cleansing being committed against Bosnian Croats and Muslims in the 1990s would help to prevent the mass influx of Bosnian refugees, because as Europeans, naturally the majority would flee to the nearest countries.

    The intervention in Syria is more to do with the Da'esh terror attacks in the West and the Syrian refugee crisis than it is to do with preventing the bloodshed. If I thought that it would eliminate Da'esh, preventing the rise of a similar group and help to end the civil war, I would fully support it. I am sceptical because dropping bombs without taking into account the situation in the region and the likely aftermath (as was the case in 2003) rarely achieves the desired result.
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    You can't just say that Islam isn't telling them to commit those acts simply because it's violent. What about someone who stops eating due to Ramadan, is that their entirely independent choice or are they doing it because it's part of their religion? Ramadan being a peaceful act makes no difference - it is clearly inspired by the religion. Therefore, as there are many, many lines in the Quran telling people to kill atheists and people of other religions, it is reasonable to assume that terrorists are inspired by their religion just as their religion would inspire them to participate in the peaceful parts of Islam. I don't doubt that they have other issues in their life that may have led them towards embracing a more extreme version of the religion, but to suggest that their actions have nothing at all to do with Islam is ludicrous. The justification is right there in their holy book.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    This is ridiculous, you don't just do something for no reason, and this seems like a very strong reason. Just because the majority of muslims do nothing doesn't mean that islam isn't responsible, since, as I have stated, the Ideas and the history of islam shows very adequate justification for this action.
    They are doing it for a reason, but its not for Islam. These people know that committing these atrocities makes Muslims feel hated, that they damage the Muslim community and make westerners hate Islam.

    They're doing it because their lives have been turned upside down and they want to harm as many people as possible.

    A quick glance of the profiles of these perpetrators often shows that they binge drink, use drugs, commit petty crimes and are generally irreligious - but apparently Islam is to blame still.
 
 
 
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