Statement from the Secretary of State for Foreign & Commonwealth Affairs Watch

This discussion is closed.
PetrosAC
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#21
Report 2 years ago
#21
(Original post by cBay)
Again, hurting Turkey's economy hurts the livelihoods of the Turkish people, the very people you purport to caring about, but not necessarily the politicians. As Saoirse succinctly explained, this can actually play into their hands creating an us vs them mentality, where once again the West is the bad guy. You really need to think through the unintended long term consequences that actions like this can have. Once again this government is acting on instinct rather than critical thinking.
It will effect the whole of Turkey - yes. That is true. However, all Erdogan will have to do is support the rights and freedoms of his people and sanctions will cease.
0
cBay
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#22
Report 2 years ago
#22
(Original post by PetrosAC)
It will effect the whole of Turkey - yes. That is true. However, all Erdogan will have to do is support the rights and freedoms of his people and sanctions will cease.
- Erdogan treats his people badly.
- We'll make his people suffer even more, that will teach him!

Honestly, I don't know how else to explain this to you. I recommend reading back on this in the morning once you've had a nice sleep and then tell me again you don't see the hole in the logic here.
0
Mactotaur
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#23
Report 2 years ago
#23
(Original post by Aph)
this isn't exactly very diplomatic now is it?
Neither was shutting down the universities and charities.
0
Jammy Duel
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#24
Report 2 years ago
#24
(Original post by Aph)
So we are now destabilising NATO and pushing Turkey toward Russia
Pretty sure they don't need pushing

not to mention that the government doesn't belive in disestablishment of the church from the state
And somebody is once again forgetting that the constitution of Turkey is strictly secular

and some government ministers support the death penalty.
But it is not government policy...yet
0
Saoirse:3
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#25
Report 2 years ago
#25
(Original post by PetrosAC)
It will effect the whole of Turkey - yes. That is true. However, all Erdogan will have to do is support the rights and freedoms of his people and sanctions will cease.
Although on a different scale, this is reminding me a lot of the attitude shown to Brexit voters. The truth is that however much we dislike it, Erdogan probably did win his election fair and square and certainly carries the support of a lot of Turks - maybe around half the population. We cannot simply scream at them that their views are wrong when they have absolutely no trust in us to be on their side and expect them to listen: it will only further confirm their suspicions and act as a potent recruitment tool. We desperately need a far more nuanced approach than the Government has been showing - and frankly, we have to realise that if we want Turks to committ to and vote for liberal democracy, we need to help those pursuing it there showcase how it can improve the country and run a positive campaign, for it can never be imposed by fear or force.
0
cranbrook_aspie
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#26
Report 2 years ago
#26
In any other circumstances I would agree with this, but there is a warzone on Turkey's southern border involving a militant group that a) is explicitly anti-Britain, b) is far, far worse than Erdogan and c) has been responsible for several terrorist atrocities in Europe over the last year. Turkey is also rather close to Russia, which has an unpredictable and volatile dictator in charge of it who may well want to launch an anti-West war in future. Sanctions against Turkey are seriously a wrong move right now.
0
Joep95
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#27
Report 2 years ago
#27
(Original post by Saoirse:3)
Although on a different scale, this is reminding me a lot of the attitude shown to Brexit voters. The truth is that however much we dislike it, Erdogan probably did win his election fair and square and certainly carries the support of a lot of Turks - maybe around half the population. We cannot simply scream at them that their views are wrong when they have absolutely no trust in us to be on their side and expect them to listen: it will only further confirm their suspicions and act as a potent recruitment tool. We desperately need a far more nuanced approach than the Government has been showing - and frankly, we have to realise that if we want Turks to committ to and vote for liberal democracy, we need to help those pursuing it there showcase how it can improve the country and run a positive campaign, for it can never be imposed by fear or force.
You recently said 'we should not be afraid to stand up against human rights abuses anywhere in the world, especially in a state that supposedly aspires to one day become an EU member.' Erdogan is debatably planning on breaching this by contemplating the death penalty and he is targeting his critics which could also be said to be breaching human rights, so let me ask you this when is the right time to 'stand up'? How many people have to die before we 'stand up'?
0
Saoirse:3
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#28
Report 2 years ago
#28
(Original post by joecphillips)
You recently said 'we should not be afraid to stand up against human rights abuses anywhere in the world, especially in a state that supposedly aspires to one day become an EU member.' Erdogan is debatably planning on breaching this by contemplating the death penalty and he is targeting his critics which could also be said to be breaching human rights, so let me ask you this when is the right time to 'stand up'? How many people have to die before we 'stand up'?
There is a big, big difference between condemning something and proposing a better alternative, and trying to force the hand of the Turkish people. If there is evidence that Erdogan plans on a dictatorship, it will be a different matter - but whilst he is a democratically elected politican we must show some level of caution. I would support, as suggested, suspending extraditions if we believe that suspects may not receive their human rights there, but these level of sanctions do risk making things worse rather than better.
1
Joep95
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#29
Report 2 years ago
#29
(Original post by Saoirse:3)
There is a big, big difference between condemning something and proposing a better alternative, and trying to force the hand of the Turkish people. If there is evidence that Erdogan plans on a dictatorship, it will be a different matter - but whilst he is a democratically elected politican we must show some level of caution. I would support, as suggested, suspending extraditions if we believe that suspects may not receive their human rights there, but these level of sanctions do risk making things worse rather than better.
I would say there are clear human rights violations, he has targeted 21,000 teachers what part do you think these people played in the coup? He is targeting the human rights of these people but should we turn a blind eye to this?

You know who else was democratically elected the man who Erdogan sees as a good example of effective government, Adolf Hitler.

They do have the risk of making things worse but if we do nothing things will get worse anyway.
1
thehistorybore
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#30
Report 2 years ago
#30
Hear hear!
0
barnetlad
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#31
Report 2 years ago
#31
If we are to have sanctions, one which has been suggested in different circles is to end any separate flights and use of business or first class travel for unpleasant regimes. Make Turkish politicians fly with Ryanair or Easyjet with all the British tourists who fly there. Another is to restrict or stop arms sales. I am not convinced of the case made by the government yet, other than if they support an end to extraditions.
0
PetrosAC
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#32
Report 2 years ago
#32
(Original post by barnetlad)
If we are to have sanctions, one which has been suggested in different circles is to end any separate flights and use of business or first class travel for unpleasant regimes. Make Turkish politicians fly with Ryanair or Easyjet with all the British tourists who fly there. Another is to restrict or stop arms sales. I am not convinced of the case made by the government yet, other than if they support an end to extraditions.
I'll be speaking with Krollo on extraditions and I'm going to take your proposals on board.


Posted from TSR Mobile
0
cranbrook_aspie
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#33
Report 2 years ago
#33
(Original post by barnetlad)
If we are to have sanctions, one which has been suggested in different circles is to end any separate flights and use of business or first class travel for unpleasant regimes. Make Turkish politicians fly with Ryanair or Easyjet with all the British tourists who fly there. Another is to restrict or stop arms sales. I am not convinced of the case made by the government yet, other than if they support an end to extraditions.
All 3 of the British tourists who are flying there right now, yeah...
0
Krollo
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#34
Report 2 years ago
#34
(Original post by PetrosAC)
I'll look into this further but that comes under Home.

Krollo, could you look into stopping any possible extraditions (is that even the word?) to Turkey?
Certainly. I shall release a statement shortly.
0
Quamquam123
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#35
Report 2 years ago
#35
I am still undecided about Turkey. It is clear that Erdogan is a very unpleasant individual but there have been worse and I fear that if there are further coups in the near future, Turkey is in danger of civil war.
0
Jammy Duel
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#36
Report 2 years ago
#36
(Original post by Quamquam123)
I am still undecided about Turkey. It is clear that Erdogan is a very unpleasant individual but there have been worse and I fear that if there are further coups in the near future, Turkey is in danger of civil war.
This is a man who has praised Hitler in recent days and I doubt you're saying he's not a bad person.
0
Joep95
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#37
Report 2 years ago
#37
Erdogan is continuing his purge
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-security-idUSKCN1051B0?campaign_id=A100&c ampaign_type=Email
0
Saracen's Fez
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#38
Report Thread starter 2 years ago
#38
Debate on this statement has concluded.
0
X
new posts
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Brexit: Given the chance now, would you vote leave or remain?

Remain (1377)
79.5%
Leave (355)
20.5%

Watched Threads

View All
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise