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Owen Smith wants 50/50 gender cabinet split Watch

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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Fair enough it's not half but at least you can be sure each of them got their on merit not their gender.

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    Can you be sure?

    What if they had to be exceptionally good, much higher standard than if they were male?

    What if the reason there is a lack of women is due to this higher standard for women?
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    Well it wouldn't be the Labour Party without such identity politics BS...............



    Also, this. Though it's only relative, mind, since there were a hell of a lot of faults (the long-term effect of putting so many people into the welfare trap and simultaneously undercutting them has been devastating. However this doesn't matter for Labour since most of these Corbynista types want even more of that so it's by the by). But yeah, the Blair years were great for the country for the most part. It shows how unhinged these people like Momentum types are when they say - with a straight face - that the country wants more leftism than what we had with Blair. Apparently lifting over a million out of poverty, pumping bottomless pits of money into the NHS, initiatives like Sure Start and the Future Jobs Fund, the minimum wage etc etc are Tory policies and the Labour Party which brought them in were too right-wing for the people and they should separate themselves from all that. And they wonder why Labour are now seen nation-wide as an un-electable joke..............

    But yeah, we see with candidates like Angela Eagle, Corbyn and Smith (and before with Ed Milliband) that being hopeless and saying the most stupid things imaginable is a prerequisite for Labour leadership at the moment. Potentially popular and rational people like Hillary Benn and Liz Kendall are made outcasts. Urgh. Bring in David Milliband purge these destructive charlatans and give yourself a chance to get the Tories out of power. If you carry on with these Corbyn BS, don't complaint about Tory policies, You're ensuring the country is stuck with them,
    Well.....you summed that up well.

    I honestly think there will be a split, which would probably be for the best actually with Corbyn forming his own party and all the far left super liberal types can wear their rose tinted glasses there.

    I don't know if you'lll agree with this, but I get the supporters of Corbyn seemingly expressing their opinions and expecting everyone to agree with them as if it's atomatically the right thing and nobody could ever think otherwise and everyone voted for Labour, because anyone who didn't has a problem. There also seems to be this PC crap fed at everyone at every angle, the independant is guilty of this now, even the BBC is showing signs.
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    Well he will not to get to choose a shadow cabinet..
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    I am all for equality, in fact it is one of the most important issues imo. But gender equality is not about making men and women equal in a numerical sense. It is about giving everyone the equal opportunities regardless on one's gender.

    Deciding that half of your cabinet have to be one gender is not equality, it is an idiot idea that is designed to make you look good! If all of women in the Labour party were better than the men (More experience, better skills... etc) then the cabinet should be 100% female and vice-versa.

    To be honest, it could be argued that this is actually inequality against certain people because some people wont be picked because they're not the correct gender to achieve this 50-50 balance.
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    I think he needs to realise the irony that positive discrimination isn't equality.
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    Well it wouldn't be the Labour Party without such identity politics BS...............



    Also, this. Though it's only relative, mind, since there were a hell of a lot of faults (the long-term effect of putting so many people into the welfare trap and simultaneously undercutting them has been devastating. However this doesn't matter for Labour since most of these Corbynista types want even more of that so it's by the by). But yeah, the Blair years were great for the country for the most part. It shows how unhinged these people like Momentum types are when they say - with a straight face - that the country wants more leftism than what we had with Blair. Apparently lifting over a million out of poverty, pumping bottomless pits of money into the NHS, initiatives like Sure Start and the Future Jobs Fund, the minimum wage etc etc are Tory policies and the Labour Party which brought them in were too right-wing for the people and they should separate themselves from all that. And they wonder why Labour are now seen nation-wide as an un-electable joke..............

    But yeah, we see with candidates like Angela Eagle, Corbyn and Smith (and before with Ed Milliband) that being hopeless and saying the most stupid things imaginable is a prerequisite for Labour leadership at the moment. Potentially popular and rational people like Hillary Benn and Liz Kendall are made outcasts. Urgh. Bring in David Milliband purge these destructive charlatans and give yourself a chance to get the Tories out of power. If you carry on with these Corbyn BS, don't complaint about Tory policies, You're ensuring the country is stuck with them,
    I was with Labour even during the Ed Miliband period, even if my preference had been David his brother, but it's beyond a joke now. I feel that the current crop of Labour politicians would actively prefer a load of poor Welsh miners covered in soot with awful lung diseases singing songs about their *****y red flags to actually bringing real dignity to the poor.
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    (Original post by Pegasus2)
    Well.....you summed that up well.

    I honestly think there will be a split, which would probably be for the best actually with Corbyn forming his own party and all the far left super liberal types can wear their rose tinted glasses there.

    I don't know if you'lll agree with this, but I get the supporters of Corbyn seemingly expressing their opinions and expecting everyone to agree with them as if it's atomatically the right thing and nobody could ever think otherwise and everyone voted for Labour, because anyone who didn't has a problem. There also seems to be this PC crap fed at everyone at every angle, the independant is guilty of this now, even the BBC is showing signs.
    They already have their own party, the socialist workers party and they should piss off back there and allow Labour to be a serious force in British politics again.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Fair enough it's not half but at least you can be sure each of them got their on merit not their gender.

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    Or because of political favour and all the internal politics of the relevant party. Ministerial appointments are rewards for loyalty, or for giving something up at a certain time, or (in the case of very junior ones) to cut off disent before it begins.

    The one thing Ministerial appointments are not based on is merit - that's why Ministers aren't required to have any relevant knowledge or experience.
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    100% all-female cabinet, that's what I want to see.
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    (Original post by Craig1998)
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7152081.html

    Before I say anything, I'm all for equality. I'm all for treating any person the same as the next along, especially in the case of gender. I'm also a supporter of Jeremy Corbyn.

    This isn't equality. This is picking people based off of their gender. You can call for a gender split like this as a great step for equality, but you fail to consider the fact that ensuring half of Labour MPs are female means some male candidates may be left out despite being better than female candidates.

    It's just like the Canadian PM (https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...justin-trudeau) ensuring his cabinet has 15 male people and 15 female people, all ethnically diverse. With the reasoning 'because it's 2015' (this was last year). This plainly, is not gender equality, why do we have people in politics triyng to promote a 50/50 gender split in things when it plainly isn't fair on others.


    Sorry if I haven't said anything clearly, I'm pretty tired but I wanted to post this before I forgot about it tomorrow morning.
    I agree with this to a certain degree, but I should point out that cabinet ministers aren't usually selected based purely on competence. In fact, many governmental ministers are notoriously incompetent and selected based upon their relationship and alignment with the party ethos.

    If we as a nation elected governments based upon their bureaucratic competence, they would probably select their cabinets on the same criteria. We do not and so they do not.

    Whether a cabinet is made up of incompetent men or incompetent women is largely inconsequential. Go nuts with your 50/50 split, I say.

    Of course, your suggestion that they are chosen based upon competence is better. Until a government chooses a conservative finance minister, a liberal minister of education and a strictly neutral foreign minister, it is highly likely that they are selecting based upon party lines rather than competence. At that point, throw a dart at a crowd of people and you will probably find someone of similar competence.

    EDIT: I should also point out that Justin Trudeau's cabinet has performed largely as well as previous governments.
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    (Original post by Pegasus2)
    Well.....you summed that up well.

    I honestly think there will be a split, which would probably be for the best theiriractually with Corbyn forming his own party and all the far left super liberal types can wear rose tinted glasses there.

    I don't know if you'lll agree with this, but I get the supporters of Corbyn seemingly expressing their opinions and expecting everyone to agree with them as if it's atomatically the right thing and nobody could ever think otherwise and everyone voted for Labour, because anyone who didn't has a problem. There also seems to be this PC crap fed at everyone at every angle, the independant is guilty of this now, even the BBC is showing signs.
    No actually that's a pretty poor summary.

    The NHS is by and large a socialist concept, which has helped millions of people receive affordable health care. Without it we'd have an American style health care system where you pay as you use it, where a routine hospital visit can run you into serious debt or even bankruptcy as the hospitals merely care about maximising profit to satisfy the shareholders.

    The reason that the NHS is currently not performing well is due to a serious lack of funding, which you can thank our lovely tory government for. It is being driven into the ground and the doctors and nurses are being vilified for wanting decent working hours while they currently work massive overtime, all the better so that the voters will then later support it being privatised.

    You'll see, one day 20 years down the line when you or a family member need an emergency knee operation from a freak bicycle accident, you'll be paying through your nose for everything.

    It's good to have a mix of capitalist and socialist programmes and institutions; if we only ever look after ourselves we'll never get anywhere and the world would be an awfully cold place.
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    (Original post by pr_euler)
    No actually that's a pretty poor summary.

    The NHS is by and large a socialist concept, which has helped millions of people receive affordable health care. Without it we'd have an American style health care system where you pay as you use it, where a routine hospital visit can run you into serious debt or even bankruptcy as the hospitals merely care about maximising profit to satisfy the shareholders.

    The reason that the NHS is currently not performing well is due to a serious lack of funding, which you can thank our lovely tory government for. It is being driven into the ground and the doctors and nurses are being vilified for wanting decent working hours while they currently work massive overtime, all the better so that the voters will then later support it being privatised.

    You'll see, one day 20 years down the line when you or a family member need an emergency knee operation from a freak bicycle accident, you'll be paying through your nose for everything.

    It's good to have a mix of capitalist and socialist programmes and institutions; if we only ever look after ourselves we'll never get anywhere and the world would be an awfully cold place.
    Er, what? We barely touched on the NHS and that's all you can talk about? I think there is a single sentence that involved the NHS and it was saying how Lab spent a lot on it, which wasen't a bad thing.

    Yes, i'm perfectly aware of how socialised healthcare works and aware of how important it is. The NHS budget hasen't been 'cut' as such, but rather investment has stalled and inflation and rising prices has caught up with it, eating into the spare money they had. Their current buget for 2015 is £116 billion. It's by far the biggest thing we spend money on. The NHS also happens to be one of the biggest employers in the world, I think it's 3rd actually, last time I checked. I suspect a lot of money is wasted actally.

    You see, Labour have this thing of spending money they don't have. We throw away £40 billion a year paying interest on a public debt we currently have. We need to reduce the spending deficit to break even, before we can start paying off national debt and reducing that £40 billion. This is what austerity is about. The tories don't do it just because they are 'mean' and inhuman as most Labour supporters shout about all the time. Again, what would Lab do? Reverse austerity and then bury their head in the sand probably.

    I woudn't be against a 1% rise in income tax to solely increase funding for the NHS, but curently loads of companies are getting away with not paying corperation tax, which is a complete joke.

    There is a lot of infomaiton and some pretty graphs about the NHS here:
    http://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects...ell/nhs-budget
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    (Original post by Craig1998)
    This isn't equality. This is picking people based off of their gender. You can call for a gender split like this as a great step for equality, but you fail to consider the fact that ensuring half of Labour MPs are female means some male candidates may be left out despite being better than female candidates.
    Exactly. I'd like to think that the people representing the country in government are chosen because they are the best people for the job, and not based on gender. In a strange way, in trying to prevent discrimination they are actually causing more of it by denying jobs to people because of their gender.
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    (Original post by A Slice of Pi)
    Exactly. I'd like to think that the people representing the country in government are chosen because they are the best people for the job, and not based on gender. In a strange way, in trying to prevent discrimination they are actually causing more of it by denying jobs to people because of their gender.
    Agree.

    Gender equality = providing fair opportunities to people regardless of whether they are male, female or any other gender.

    Gender inequality = selecting a person for the sheer fact that they are of a specific gender.
 
 
 
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