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A152 – Motions of No Confidence Amendment Watch

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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    I disagree with hard limits, but we should aim to end this ’MoNC culture’ through peer pressure.
    That is not going to happen, if the left-wing in the MHoC see an opportunity to collectively get rid of a Tory government by proposing a MoNC, one will be tabled because the left-wing do not need reasons to support a MoNC: their hatred of the Tories is enough of a reason. But the inequality is caused by MPs such as Rakas who refuse to engage in politicking to target the left-wing by collectively forming a right-wing bloc to support a MoNC using hatred of the left-wing as a reason.
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    (Original post by adam9317)
    That is a fair point I must agree to; but a VONC will only pass if we had a very united govt etc which may not always be the case.
    Although when we look back to the last few terms, its only been once in the last 13 parliaments that we have had 2 successful VONC- yet however many unsuccessful!
    Indeed, but a few of days ago, we also thought ‘to end’ was the same as ‘to terminate’.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    That is not going to happen, if the left-wing in the MHoC see an opportunity to collectively get rid of a Tory government by proposing a MoNC, one will be tabled because the left-wing do not need reasons to support a MoNC: their hatred of the Tories is enough of a reason. But the inequality is caused by MPs such as Rakas who refuse to engage in politicking to target the left-wing by collectively forming a right-wing bloc to support a MoNC using hatred of the left-wing as a reason.
    Yes, the overall culture of the House needs changing as well.
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    To reiterate, this doesn't mean there can only be one MoNC a term - it's one PER GOVERNMENT.

    Looking at the amount of party members that have voted against their own parties in truly bad governments, or against MoNCs when governments haven't been performing as bad as is made out to be, I don't believe that one MoNC per Parliament is extreme. We should be encouraging parties to stay in government longer to give them a real chance of producing high-quality legislation and to give the opposition the chance to force the government's hand in matters. The current culture is that if we pass the 4 week mark and the right/left wing (delete as appropriate) is still in power, we should attempt an MoNC. Not only this, the amount of governments that actually go the full length of one term without tearing themselves apart in a coalition is low enough without having MoNCs chucked around more than decent Budgets are!

    While only we can put a leash on the current MoNC culture that is in the House, I don't think that we will be able to without suitable constitutional guidance on this matter.
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    (Original post by JoeL1994)
    To reiterate, this doesn't mean there can only be one MoNC a term - it's one PER GOVERNMENT.

    Looking at the amount of party members that have voted against their own parties in truly bad governments, or against MoNCs when governments haven't been performing as bad as is made out to be, I don't believe that one MoNC per Parliament is extreme. We should be encouraging parties to stay in government longer to give them a real chance of producing high-quality legislation and to give the opposition the chance to force the government's hand in matters. The current culture is that if we pass the 4 week mark and the right/left wing (delete as appropriate) is still in power, we should attempt an MoNC. Not only this, the amount of governments that actually go the full length of one term without tearing themselves apart in a coalition is low enough without having MoNCs chucked around more than decent Budgets are!

    While only we can put a leash on the current MoNC culture that is in the House, I don't think that we will be able to without suitable constitutional guidance on this matter.
    I understand your point (although, thus far there hasn't ever been a decent budget on TSR) I think if you really want to do this you should limit it to 2 and up the requirement to 2/3's of non-government MPs plus the LotO to prevent a few noobs with an itchy trigger finger preventing a legitimate challenge later on.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    I understand your point (although, thus far there hasn't ever been a decent budget on TSR) I think if you really want to do this you should limit it to 2 and up the requirement to 2/3's of non-government MPs plus the LotO to prevent a few noobs with an itchy trigger finger preventing a legitimate challenge later on.
    2/3s is far too high, the other points are reasonable but as this has only just gone up, I won't be moving anywhere on it yet.
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    (Original post by JoeL1994)
    2/3s is far too high, the other points are reasonable but as this has only just gone up, I won't be moving anywhere on it yet.
    Given that on average at least 2/3s of the opposition parties need to vote for it I think it's reasonable if you are limiting it to 1/2 per government.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Given that on average at least 2/3s of the opposition parties need to vote for it I think it's reasonable if you are limiting it to 1/2 per government.
    If 2/3s of the opposition seconded it, there would be no need for a debate. The schedule is set so the government can draw their battle lines and and argue/counter against the proposer/seconders to convince others of their right to rule.
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    (Original post by JoeL1994)
    If 2/3s of the opposition seconded it, there would be no need for a debate. The schedule is set so the government can draw their battle lines and and argue/counter against the proposer/seconders to convince others of their right to rule.
    But if the threshold is too low it can fall to trigger happy people.
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    I agree that the current requirement for seconders is too low, especially if we're going to be limited to one a term. I mean I've not heard about either of the MoNC's this term until they've been posted to the house.. if I had, I would have advised both times holding off a little longer before launching it.
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    Limiting the number per term in general is just a really bad idea. Make it harder to call one, by all means, but don't place a numerical limit on it.
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    Yes, the overall culture of the House needs changing as well.
    This can only be achieved by the Speaker including far more emojis in his updates. :fuhrer:
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    No (but not a firm one), until someone can counter TDA's points.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    This can only be achieved by the Speaker including far more emojis in his updates. :fuhrer:
    :no::no::no:

    At which point Maggie Thatcher starts turning in her grave.
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    Mmm I'm am inclined to agree with this.
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    This amendment is in cessation.
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    This amendment has been withdrawn.
 
 
 
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