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Where do you consider yourself political PART 2 watch

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  • View Poll Results: Where do you stand politically?
    Far Left
    13.79%
    Centre Left
    13.79%
    Traditional Left
    6.90%
    Classical Liberal
    20.69%
    Libertarian
    20.69%
    Centre Right
    13.79%
    Far Right
    6.90%
    Undefined
    3.45%

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    I'm centre right.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    How can you be in favour of positive discrimination if you agree only with equality of opportunity, and don't agree with equality of outcome?

    Or do you believe in both equality of opportunity and outcome?
    I think the easy argument is that people from certain backgrounds are naturally disadvantaged and don't have the same opportunities.
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    Here is the chart so far:

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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    How can you be in favour of positive discrimination if you agree only with equality of opportunity, and don't agree with equality of outcome?

    Or do you believe in both equality of opportunity and outcome?
    positive discrimination is about trying to give people equal opportunities. at the present moment life chances are not equal for all people. do you believe that right now equality of opportunity exists? so you do not think privilege exists?

    positive discrimination is not about achieving equality of outcome. it gives those disadvantaged people (i.e. those with less opportunity/life chances) more of the opportunities that the privileged people get. it doesn't ensure that everyone has equal outcomes, i.e. equal income, wealth etc, just that everyone has the same opportunities to achieve said outcomes despite their backgrounds.

    equality of opportunity is more meritocratic, while equality of outcome is like communism.

    HOWEVER I do believe in a degree of equality of outcome, like I believe no one should be in poverty, but I strongly favour opportunity.
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    (Original post by jake4198)
    The last thread I created raised a lot of controversy with a lot of people questioning the descriptions I used to describe each of the political positions. The descriptions weren't meant to be literal, but rather to give you an idea of the some of the principles associated with that particular political allegiance. Instead, I thought I'd create a more realistic political compass consisting of both domestic and economic policies.

    Mark yourself out of 10 and plot yourself on the graph below.

    Domestic(x/10):
    1) You believe in institutional racism and the patriarchy.
    2) You believe in gay marriage.
    3) You believe in euthanasia.
    4) You believe in restorative justice.
    5) You believe in drug decriminalisation.
    6) You believe in positive discrimination.
    7) You believe in gender equality.
    8) You believe in multiculturalism.
    9) You believe in social justice and the common good.
    10) You believe in secularism.

    Economic (x/10):
    1) You believe in the free market.
    2) You believe in less red tape and regulation.
    3) You believe in individual prosperity and "The American Dream".
    4) You believe in globalisation and transnational cooperation.
    5) You believe the minimum wage hurts businesses and employment.
    6) You believe in equality of opportunity over equality of outcome.
    7) You believe the rich are entitled to a better quality of living.
    8) You believe in small government and privatisation.
    9) You believe in a flat rate of income tax.
    10) You believe the engineer is more important than the writer.

    Attachment 566760

    Just if anyone's interested, I'd consider myself (5) for domestic and (9) for economic.

    Remember to register your outcome on the poll, too!
    Domestic 8/10
    Economic 2/10

    Yep, definitely far left.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Except positive discrimination doesn't care about that, it cares only about the outcome by definition, since it is by definition a way of helping groups of people who are underrepresented, but it doesn't really care why they are underrepresented
    Well, perhaps you could say that sometimes the under-representation of certain groups is strong enough to indicate, in all likelihood, a lack of equal opportunity for individuals in that group. I dunno, I am trying to play devil's advocate here. I don't tend to agree with positive discrimination either. Not for characteristics like race and gender. I would say that, for instance, somebody's quality of education should be taken into account by universities, to an extent.
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    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
    Domestic 8/10
    Economic 2/10

    Yep, definitely far left.
    It is rare to see someone far left who disagrees with gay marriage..
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    While yes/no questions work on the domestic questions, I don't think they are adequate in terms of the economy.

    Do I believe in the free market? If by that you mean zero regulation then of course I don't. But I sure as hell don't believe in a planned economy.

    Do I like red tape and regulation? Red tape by definition is an excess of regulation so of course I don't.

    Does the minimum wage hurt business and employment? Only at the very lowest levels of income and are we considering any further economic effects beyond short-run production costs?
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    (Original post by jake4198)

    Domestic(x/10):
    1) You believe in institutional racism and the patriarchy.
    2) You believe in gay marriage.
    3) You believe in euthanasia.
    4) You believe in restorative justice.
    5) You believe in drug decriminalisation.
    6) You believe in positive discrimination.
    7) You believe in gender equality.
    8) You believe in multiculturalism.
    9) You believe in social justice and the common good.
    10) You believe in secularism.

    Economic (x/10):
    1) You believe in the free market.
    2) You believe in less red tape and regulation.
    3) You believe in individual prosperity and "The American Dream".
    4) You believe in globalisation and transnational cooperation.
    5) You believe the minimum wage hurts businesses and employment.
    6) You believe in equality of opportunity over equality of outcome.
    7) You believe the rich are entitled to a better quality of living.
    8) You believe in small government and privatisation.
    9) You believe in a flat rate of income tax.
    10) You believe the engineer is more important than the writer.

    Classical Liberal.
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    Domestic(x/10):
    1) You believe in institutional racism and the patriarchy. - Nope I don't think it generally exists in the Western world but it does in certain areas. (0)
    2) You believe in gay marriage. - Yep (1)
    3) You believe in (voluntary) euthanasia. - Yep (1)
    4) You believe in restorative justice. - Not really (0)
    5) You believe in drug decriminalisation. - To an extent. Less harmful ones possibly. Certainly not ones like heroin, meth etc. (0.5)
    6) You believe in positive discrimination. - Nope (0)
    7) You believe in gender equality. - Yes although allowances do sometimes have to be made as men & woman are't identical. (1)
    8) You believe in multiculturalism. - Kinda; I believe that some cultures can exist side by side fine but some are too different. (0.5)
    9) You believe in social justice and the common good. - I agree with the common good to an extent. (0.5)
    10) You believe in secularism. - Absolutely (1)

    Economic (x/10):
    1) You believe in the free market. - Absolutely (1)
    2) You believe in less red tape and regulation. - Absolutely (1)
    3) You believe in individual prosperity and "The American Dream". - Yes although we can't just leave individuals on the scrap heap either as it creates further problems down the road. (1)
    4) You believe in globalisation and transnational cooperation. - I believe in global trade with a hybrid of co-operation & peaceful competition. (0.5)
    5) You believe the minimum wage hurts businesses and employment. - Perhaps but the benefits of a minimum wages outweigh that so I fully support the minimum/living wage. (0)
    6) You believe in equality of opportunity over equality of outcome. - Absolutely, as long as people aren't left on the scrap heap. (1)
    7) You believe the rich are entitled to a better quality of living. - I don't believe they're "entitled" to it but if it's their money then they should be able to spend it how they choose (as long as it's not illegal) (0.5)
    8) You believe in small government and privatisation. - Yes although certain departments like Defence (& the NHS to an extent) have to be nationalised. The Govt should also be able to prevent monopolies & be powerful enough to hold large corporations to account. (1)
    9) You believe in a flat rate of income tax. - No. It might work in some situations but not currently. I do also think it's morally right for the wealthier individuals to contribute more to country which has (hopefully) helped them to get richer. (0)
    10) You believe the engineer is more important than the writer. - Yep (1)

    Domestic - 5.5
    Economy - 7

    I'd personally class myself as Centre-Right with a sympathy towards Libertarianism over Authoritarianism so this fits.
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    (Original post by Nirvana1989-1994)
    x
    Out of curiosity, why do you believe in institutional racism?

    OP - i got centre-left.
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    Libertarian.

    Domestic: 6 (2, 3, 4, 5, 7*, 10).
    Economic: 9 (1, 2, 3, 4**, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9).

    *In terms of rights and opportunities; not outcome.

    **In terms of trade; not political union and unrestricted free movement.
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    (Original post by GlitterandGold-x)
    Out of curiosity, why do you believe in institutional racism?

    OP - i got centre-left.
    As someone who is mixed race (black and white) I've seen it happen and, to a minor degree, experienced it.
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    (Original post by Nirvana1989-1994)
    As someone who is mixed race (black and white) I've seen it happen and, to a minor degree, experienced it.
    I understood the question to mean "do you believe insitutional racism to be ok" rather than whether it happens or not. I agree with your point
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    (Original post by GlitterandGold-x)
    I understood the question to mean "do you believe insitutional racism to be ok" rather than whether it happens or not. I agree with your point
    Sorry haha , and no.
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    (Original post by Nirvana1989-1994)
    As someone who is mixed race (black and white) I've seen it happen and, to a minor degree, experienced it.
    What did you experience?
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    What did you experience?
    Minor stuff: unsavoury stuff said to me, police acting funny with me like if they came to do some kind of workshop/talk-every year about the 'dangers' of Halloween at my school, and passive aggressive things about race while clearly directed at me during discussions. It's got better now though because my college is very mixed ethnically, but my school was predominantly white.
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    (Original post by Nirvana1989-1994)
    Minor stuff: unsavoury stuff said to me, police acting funny with me like if they came to do some kind of workshop/talk-every year about the 'dangers' of Halloween at my school, and passive aggressive things about race while clearly directed at me during discussions. It's got better now though because my college is very mixed ethnically, but my school was predominantly white.
    To me that sounds like just regular racism at worst, not institutional racism. I mean, the police have been a bit funny with me sometimes and I have had security follow me around shops occasionally and I'm white.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    To me that sounds like just regular racism at worst, not institutional racism. I mean, the police have been a bit funny with me sometimes and I have had security follow me around shops occasionally and I'm white.
    Yeah, I still believe it exists though. And were you followed round because of people believing that 'white people are thieves', probably not.

    Also, one of my tutor's at college is an ex policeman and he treats me and anyone of colour in my class like sh*t.
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    (Original post by Nirvana1989-1994)
    Yeah, I still believe it exists though. And were you followed round because of people believing that 'white people are thieves', probably not.
    A good chunk are, I'll sometimes dress like a chav.
 
 
 
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