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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    I love how all these salty remoaners are so sure that all this European law, esp with regard to employment law - will just disappear post Brexit

    This stuff is all UK statute. It's UK law. Why would you think it would instantly change? If we didn't want it in the first place, we would have just done what everyone else in Europe does and just ignored it. Leaving the EU doesn't automatically repeal UK statute.
    This is actually a really interesting post.

    Did you vote BREXIT thinking you would still be able to work and live in the EU on the same terms as exist now?

    If so, now knowing this to be wrong, would you, given a chance again, vote REMAIN?
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    This is actually a really interesting post.

    Did you vote BREXIT thinking you would still be able to work and live in the EU on the same terms as exist now?

    If so, now knowing this to be wrong, would you, given a chance again, vote REMAIN?
    No it wasn't really a consideration for me.

    I quite like Europe but I really can't stand the EU. That's why I voted out.

    It's a matter of reality that before Maastricht British people lived and worked in Europe without horrendous drama so there's no reason why they won't continue to.

    And I accept that there will be a very small loss of opportunity for a small number of people but I'm absolutely convinced that the overwhelming majority of people who say they have lost the opportunity to work in Europe freely would never have actually done so.
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    No it wasn't really a consideration for me.

    I quite like Europe but I really can't stand the EU. That's why I voted out.

    It's a matter of reality that before Maastricht British people lived and worked in Europe without horrendous drama so there's no reason why they won't continue to.

    And I accept that there will be a very small loss of opportunity for a small number of people but I'm absolutely convinced that the overwhelming majority of people who say they have lost the opportunity to work in Europe freely would never have actually done so.
    You are flying in the face of logic. Your EEA view is basically being in the EU without a vote.
    I understand where you're coming from - Industrial or Sociological Inertia (in 'A' Level geography its the explanation as to why there is so much industry along river banks).

    Inertia is a powerful effect (hence some post industrial towns exist up north when there is little or no work there) but even taking into account Inertia mass migration continent wide does happen - eg Poles Coming here, or Rust Belt Towns in USA going West. If there became a new "boom" in Eastern Europe within the next 50 years, millions of people will "hitch up their wagon" and head East - except a Brexited, impovertish UK , left no where to go.

    Inertia explains why people STAY, it does not explain why people MOVE...
    The "PULL" factor of the "San Francisco Gold Rush" .

    You have wrongly assumed that UK people are retrogressive and are only affected by inertia they have no "dreams" of a better life .

    I feel your view of UK people, if correct, is very depressing.
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    weird double post. Sorry
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    You are flying in the face of logic. Your EEA view is basically being in the EU without a vote.
    I understand where you're coming from - Industrial or Sociological Inertia (in 'A' Level geography its the explanation as to why there is so much industry along river banks).

    Inertia is a powerful effect (hence some post industrial towns exist up north when there is little or no work there) but even taking into account Inertia mass migration continent wide does happen - eg Poles Coming here, or Rust Belt Towns in USA going West. If there became a new "boom" in Eastern Europe within the next 50 years, millions of people will "hitch up their wagon" and head East - except a Brexited, impovertish UK , left no where to go.

    Inertia explains why people STAY, it does not explain why people MOVE...
    The "PULL" factor of the "San Francisco Gold Rush" .

    You have wrongly assumed that UK people are retrogressive and are only affected by inertia they have no "dreams" of a better life .

    I feel your view of UK people, if correct, is very depressing.
    Not really, I'm just applying my real-world view over a highly questionable pseudo-academic analysis.

    From the rivers cried by the Remoaners, you would think that 90% of young British people at some point live and work in the EU. That's clearly nothing like the reality. It's a tiny proportion.

    Of that tiny proportion, I would assume that almost all of them would still be allowed to live and work in the EU post-Brexit even with out a free movement agreement. It's what happened before. It's what happens now with other countries outside the EU, and the fact is that in a lot of these EU countries - there are no jobs for young people anyhow.
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    They're current UK law. It's like saying that Brexit doesn't guarantee that murder will still be a crime. Why would we repeal any law? If we objected to it that much, we just wouldn't have had it in the first place.
    It's not the same as murder being a crime isn't linked to our membership to the EU.

    The OP is referring to things like the right to free movement, work, study, etc, in another EU country. These rights are currently written into law. While we don't know the exact terms of our exit, we may lose these rights. Many leavers did want free movement to end after all.
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    (Original post by ZeroFree)
    It's not the same as murder being a crime isn't linked to our membership to the EU.

    The OP is referring to things like the right to free movement, work, study, etc, in another EU country. These rights are currently written into law. While we don't know the exact terms of our exit, we may lose these rights. Many leavers did want free movement to end after all.
    Working time and anything else that came in as a result of EU membership was no longer linked to EU membership as soon as it was given effect by UK statute.

    That's why we have the Human Rights Act - and don't just say "oh, refer to the European Convention on Human Rights" (not an EU thing, but the same applies)
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    Oh look, it's another FredOrJohn thread.

    Get a ****ing job.
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    Not really, I'm just applying my real-world view over a highly questionable pseudo-academic analysis.

    From the rivers cried by the Remoaners, you would think that 90% of young British people at some point live and work in the EU. That's clearly nothing like the reality. It's a tiny proportion.

    Of that tiny proportion, I would assume that almost all of them would still be allowed to live and work in the EU post-Brexit even with out a free movement agreement. It's what happened before. It's what happens now with other countries outside the EU, and the fact is that in a lot of these EU countries - there are no jobs for young people anyhow.
    I think your ideas of "working" are Corbyn-esque - most people do not work for life in some 1970s mill. The modern urbanite worker (like myself or most Remoaners ) is a free lancer going to Oil Well to Oil Well or Web Site to Web Site or Infrastructure project to Infrastructure project or App to App . The numbers of us in the EU at any one time is small (about 1/2 million) but there is a huge rate of churn (its a different half million every few months).

    Our group of Remoaners is probably one of the biggest net taxpayers to the Inland Revenue (the money goes to our Government because all work under 12 months is counted as UK money).

    Your idea of that somehow we will all be able to just carry on undermines the entire BREXIT voters main wish, which was to control migration. You are saying you are a BREXIT person but your words are very much a Remoaner.

    So, intellectually are you in agreement - do you think working around the EU, is generally speaking, good for the individual economically , culturally and intellectually - EU Free Movement helps us on our way to every persons eventual goal "Self Actualisation". ... Brexit gets in the way of the individuals dreams
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    Working time and anything else that came in as a result of EU membership was no longer linked to EU membership as soon as it was given effect by UK statute.

    That's why we have the Human Rights Act - and don't just say "oh, refer to the European Convention on Human Rights" (not an EU thing, but the same applies)
    I'm not talking about the WTD or the ECHR, I'm talking about the rights to free movement.
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    (Original post by ZeroFree)
    I'm not talking about the WTD or the ECHR, I'm talking about the rights to free movement.
    People worked in Europe before the EU, and they'll continue to do so after. It might even be on the same terms.

    My opinion is that in the most extreme scenario (which is to my mind unlikely) that Britain becomes as removed from Europe as say Japan or the Australia, then yes - there will be a loss of privilege to a small number of people.

    However, I can't get past the idea that of the apparent millions of people that claim that free movement is so important, only a tiny fraction of them would ever use it, and of those, only a smaller fraction would be unable to live or work in Europe as a result i.e. they would be unable to work/live in Europe through whatever channels would exist ultimately.
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    People worked in Europe before the EU, and they'll continue to do so after. It might even be on the same terms.

    My opinion is that in the most extreme scenario (which is to my mind unlikely) that Britain becomes as removed from Europe as say Japan or the Australia, then yes - there will be a loss of privilege to a small number of people.

    However, I can't get past the idea that of the apparent millions of people that claim that free movement is so important, only a tiny fraction of them would ever use it, and of those, only a smaller fraction would be unable to live or work in Europe as a result i.e. they would be unable to work/live in Europe through whatever channels would exist ultimately.
    ...Take my example. The "stay in UK" Intertia versus "go to EU" pull.
    I stayed in the UK up until 2008/9 because there was no need to move.
    Once recession hit HARD, I like lots of others, looked at places that were still doing OK. I went to Finland. Just got on a plane (Easyjet) and got a job. Same day!!! With about 500,000 of us doing that this enabled the UK to pull out of the recession faster then if we all remained on the dole, dragging the country down further.

    The next recession to hit the UK could be next week, or it could be 5 or 10 years away. The young people in that recession, if Brexit occurs will have no escape. It will be like the 1930s in that, there will be no jobs and no where else to go to get them. Ireland, when it gets poor, its people leave and work all round the EU. That is how they get rich again. Brexit is a TRAP... It will eventually lead to mass unemployment and no escape. There will be another recession at some point.. What happens then? We would have no way to escape?
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    No, whatever way you put it, we're most likely leaving the EU, unless some crazy stuff happens in parliament. Therefore it's not theft, as the majority of people voted for it, it's how democracy works and you just have to deal with it.
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    Working time and anything else that came in as a result of EU membership was no longer linked to EU membership as soon as it was given effect by UK statute.

    That's why we have the Human Rights Act - and don't just say "oh, refer to the European Convention on Human Rights" (not an EU thing, but the same applies)
    Have you seen what kinds of governments we keep on electing in the UK? The tabloids are in complete control and the EU has been the only thing holding us back from going full USA on workers' rights. Atlantic Bridge headbangers like Liam Fox will make sure of it.

    No, the reason we have the Human Rights Act is to hear cases in our own Supreme Court. It is a concession to Eurosceptic types who are scared of the exact same laws being applied in another country.
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    I preferred you when you'd sign off each post with your name. What went wrong?

    Leinad2012
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    Brexiters = Susan Boyle Fans who eat white bread.
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    Currently I, YOU , ME "OWN" these rights

    https://www.gov.uk/working-abroad/overview

    What UK government says:
    have the same rights as nationals of the country you’re working in when it comes to:
    • working conditions
    • pay
    • social security (eg benefits)

    Have Brexit voters "stolen" from us these rights?

    What do you think have we been robbed?

    Is that why so many people are spitting mad about Brexit?
    We have no inherent right to work in those countries, so no, we have not been the victims of theft
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    (Original post by the bear)
    Brexiters = Susan Boyle Fans who eat white bread.
    Triggered
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    OP,say you have a point. Say you're right. What remedy do you propose?
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    (Original post by Calzs34)
    No, whatever way you put it, we're most likely leaving the EU, unless some crazy stuff happens in parliament. Therefore it's not theft, as the majority of people voted for it, it's how democracy works and you just have to deal with it.
    If it became illegal to become a homosexual you would consider it a theft by the majority - stealing the minorities sexuality.

    Likewise if Free Movement became illegal it would be a theft by the Inert majority - stealing the minorities Free Movement (a very real right).

    Just because you are inert up in your Northern Town or Cornwall or Wales does not mean a City Urban dweller has to have an inert life style. Free Movement is very much like sex - it is fun and exciting to work openly and freely in the EU
 
 
 
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