Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Remarks are too expensive and poorer students are disadvantaged Watch

    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Trinculo)
    Sure, but if the school had a discretionary fund for that - why wouldn't all poorer students who had not got high grades always go for re-marks? Then it would be free and there would be no downside at all. It would seriously disadvantade everyone.

    Basically any "poorer" student who got less than ABB would have nothing to lose whatsoever by going for free re-marks.
    The school would still have a say in who gets remarks and who doesn't. They should put a limit on the amount of UMS required for the next grade. That way schools are more likely to allow remarks, but it is for students who are close anyways not those who got 71% and want an A grade. My school currently rejects those even with 78% which is only 2-5 marks which in essay subjects isn't very much.
    • Very Important Poster
    Offline

    19
    Very Important Poster
    (Original post by lahorizon)
    Mistakes happen and the first mark is not always the most accurate one so it doesn't have that much to do with working hard as one may think. Many things could go wrong.

    It is the exam boards fault because I don't know why they''re charging £38 which is more than the original exam entry, in the case of Edexcel Maths which I believe costs £34.


    That is why I think even if they make it cheaper, not all students will be sending their papers to get remarked.
    But you get your money back. Parents and pupils in the past have used the system to have a second bite hoping to get a better mark. In teh real world things cost a lot more than £38. Wait till you get to professional qualifications.

    Just not convinced by your complaint. You had 2 years to put the money aside. Just borrow it and agree to pay it back or do some babysitting for money.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by pizzanomics)
    But if you find yourself in a position where you 'need' (using that word loosely) to send off 3 papers for remarks then you probably weren't good enough to get into the university you tried to get into in the first place.

    I only know of a handful of people that sent papers off for remarks on results day. Don't know anybody that sent off 2, so I'd assume 3 is almost unheard of.
    If I got say 79% in all 3, I don't think that makes me less good enough for my course. It could be down to many reasons such as the original examiner feeling unwell or them missing out a section to mark.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by 999tigger)
    But you get your money back. Parents and pupils in the past have used the system to have a second bite hoping to get a better mark. In teh real world things cost a lot more than £38. Wait till you get to professional qualifications.

    Just not convinced by your complaint. You had 2 years to put the money aside.
    I just told you that I don't have time to work and put money aside. I am on free school meals and hardly get pocket money. There is no way for me to save £100 for say 2 remarks and risk losing it all.

    Tell me why to get a remark for an Edexcel geography paper costs £38 but the original entry costs £28
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lahorizon)
    If I got say 79% in all 3, I don't think that makes me less good enough for my course. It could be down to many reasons such as the original examiner feeling unwell or them missing out a section to mark.
    It could also be down to you only getting 79% in all 3 papers and be through no fault of the examiner's whatsoever.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lahorizon)
    The school would still have a say in who gets remarks and who doesn't. They should put a limit on the amount of UMS required for the next grade. That way schools are more likely to allow remarks, but it is for students who are close anyways not those who got 71% and want an A grade. My school currently rejects those even with 78% which is only 2-5 marks which in essay subjects isn't very much.
    I don't know. This all seems predicated on both the assertion that there is a fundamental unfairness and also that (a) there will be lower than expected marks and (b) these are the result of faulty marking.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by pizzanomics)
    It could also be down to you only getting 79% in all 3 papers and be through no fault of the examiner's whatsoever.
    That is true but for my own peace of mind and for the likely chance that a mark can change, I should be able to afford a remark.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Trinculo)
    I don't know. This all seems predicated on both the assertion that there is a fundamental unfairness and also that (a) there will be lower than expected marks and (b) these are the result of faulty marking.
    My main point overall is that I don't understand why they are so expensive and that it is true that poorer students are less likely to send off their exams to be remarked. Exam boards should charge the exact cost of the remark which I feel they are not currently doing. Schools should also be given an allowance for remarks.
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    I actually agree that there is something fundamentally wrong with paying for remarks, because it does disadvantage students from lower income backgrounds, and perpetuates the idea that perhaps markers are not doing their job correctly, and fairly, in the first place. Although I understand the other points about cheap remarks perhaps being too accessible, it is worrying that it is required at all. If I were you I would speak to a school pastoral worker, and ask their advice, as many secondary and sixthform schools do offer bursaries for this kind of this, if you are eligible.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PippaStu)
    I actually agree that there is something fundamentally wrong with paying for remarks, because it does disadvantage students from lower income backgrounds, and perpetuates the idea that perhaps markers are not doing their job correctly, and fairly, in the first place. Although I understand the other points about cheap remarks perhaps being too accessible, it is worrying that it is required at all. If I were you I would speak to a school pastoral worker, and ask their advice, as many secondary and sixth form schools do offer bursaries for this kind of this, if you are eligible.
    I've spoken to many subject teachers, my head of sixth form and our exam officer and there isn't much they can or rather, want to do. I am just going to hope I get the grades I require on the 18th but the main point of this thread was to create a discussion about what I believe is an actual issue that should be addressed.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    This entire discussion forgets something - these teachers are paid on a flat rate per paper basis. It's not very much at all, something in the order of £0.25 for a short response on maths papers. If someone writes down the correct answer, then proceeds to cross it out, but does not make an attempt at an alternative answer - the regulations say the examiner should give full credit to the crossed out response.

    Examiner A might be experienced with marking guidance and correctly allocates one mark in accordance with the regulations.
    Examiner B might be less experienced with marking guidance and erroneously assumes that the "ignore crossed out work" rule applies.

    From a non-party perspective, Examiner A's marks should be deemed the "correct" mark. There are a lot of scenarios/situations where mark allocation is ambiguous, more so in essay subjects and longer written responses - especially if written in prose.

    This is more or less a fundamental issue with the examinations system, so until then requesting remarks from senior examiners will remain an important tool to ensure standards are met.
    • Very Important Poster
    Offline

    19
    Very Important Poster
    (Original post by lahorizon)
    I just told you that I don't have time to work and put money aside. I am on free school meals and hardly get pocket money. There is no way for me to save £100 for say 2 remarks and risk losing it all.

    Tell me why to get a remark for an Edexcel geography paper costs £38 but the original entry costs £28
    Why dont you contact edexcel and ask them how the cost is made up?

    They have to pay for admin.
    They have to pay one or two people to remark it I'd expect £20 an hour just for that.
    They have to pay someone to locate the paper.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lahorizon)
    My main point overall is that I don't understand why they are so expensive and it is true that poorer students are less likely to send off their exams to be remarked. Exam boards should charge the exact cost of the remark which I feel they are not currently doing. Schools should also be given an allowance for remarks.
    Do you know for sure that the cost of a re-mark isn't more than £38?

    Not to be unsympathetic, but this is only for very marginal cases, and if it's so fundamental, I can't see many people being entirely unable to afford it - especially with the promise of refund.

    You'd have to be a monumentally rare case to need multiple re-marks costing £100s and then not getting refunded.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Why dont you contact edexcel and ask them how the cost is made up?

    They have to pay for admin.
    They have to pay one or two people to remark it I'd expect £20 an hour just for that.
    They have to pay someone to locate the paper.
    They have to all of those the first time as well plus delivery and creating the paper in the first place. So why does it cost more the second time around than the first?

    edit: Also I don't think it takes an hour to remark a paper, my teachers who are examiners definitely do not spend that much time. And for Edexcel it is all done on a computer so I'd doubt they would have to physically locate a paper.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Trinculo)
    Do you know for sure that the cost of a re-mark isn't more than £38?

    Not to be unsympathetic, but this is only for very marginal cases, and if it's so fundamental, I can't see many people being entirely unable to afford it - especially with the promise of refund.

    You'd have to be a monumentally rare case to need multiple re-marks costing £100s and then not getting refunded.
    For Edexcel it is £38 for standard and £48 for priority.

    I really don't believe it is a minority of people. Many of my friends also did not send of their exams for remarks and I think that many people just do not like to say it. I am not even the poorest of people so I can't imagine what those less well of than me must feel.
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lahorizon)
    I've spoken to many subject teachers, my head of sixth form and our exam officer and there isn't much they can or rather, want to do. I am just going to hope I get the grades I require on the 18th but the main point of this thread was to create a discussion about what I believe is an actual issue that should be addressed.
    It is certainly an issue, but I'm just trying to point out that a lot of schools do try to right this wrong, and create a quick fix, by offering bursaries. The examination system is flawed, because every marker will mark to a different standard; even in subjects like maths, unless there is a 'tick the box', answers are subjective and down to interpretation and expectation. Exams in themselves are a poor way of assessing performance, only made worse by poor marking and what is essentially student segregation through charging for remarks.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    If your parents are so poor, why did they have a second child? So that you can babysit him? Schools also give £15 a week if your parents earn below 21k a year.
    Why didn't you go to a better school?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lawlieto)
    If your parents are so poor, why did they have a second child? So that you can babysit him? Schools also give £15 a week if your parents earn below 21k a year.
    Why didn't you go to a better school?
    I don't think it is any of your business why my parents had a second child and my local area does not have many schools and this is the closest. Silly 11 year old me forgot to ask my school's remark policy when applying, dammit. -_-
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PippaStu)
    It is certainly an issue, but I'm just trying to point out that a lot of schools do try to right this wrong, and create a quick fix, by offering bursaries. The examination system is flawed, because every marker will mark to a different standard; even in subjects like maths, unless there is a 'tick the box', answers are subjective and down to interpretation and expectation. Exams in themselves are a poor way of assessing performance, only made worse by poor marking and what is essentially student segregation through charging for remarks.
    I agree 100%
    • Very Important Poster
    Offline

    19
    Very Important Poster
    (Original post by lahorizon)
    They have to all of those the first time as well plus delivery and creating the paper in the first place. So why does it cost more the second time around than the first?

    edit: Also I don't think it takes an hour to remark a paper, my teachers who are examiners definitely do not spend that much time. And for Edexcel it is all done on a computer so I'd doubt they would have to physically locate a paper.
    What does a review of marking involve? The marking of your question paper will be reviewed by a senior examiner, who will check your answers against the mark scheme. This senior examiner won’t have marked your paper before. Once the marking of your paper has been reviewed, we'll do a clerical check to make sure that:
    • everything you've written has been marked
    • all of the marks have been added up to give the correct total mark
    • we’ve entered your total mark correctly on our systems
    • any special consideration has been taken into account (if it was applied for before the exam).
    You can request that we only perform the clerical check. This will cost less than having a full review of marking.
    Perhaps the senior examiner gets paid £5 or £10 more?

    Go and complain to edexcel. I dont see you as being significantly disadvantaged. i never dreamed of insisting on remarks. I think its cheap.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Would you like to hibernate through the winter months?
    Help with your A-levels

    All the essentials

    The adventure begins mug

    Student life: what to expect

    What it's really like going to uni

    Rosette

    Essay expert

    Learn to write like a pro with our ultimate essay guide.

    Uni match

    Uni match

    Our tool will help you find the perfect course for you

    Study planner

    Create a study plan

    Get your head around what you need to do and when with the study planner tool.

    Study planner

    Resources by subject

    Everything from mind maps to class notes.

    Hands typing

    Degrees without fees

    Discover more about degree-level apprenticeships.

    A student doing homework

    Study tips from A* students

    Students who got top grades in their A-levels share their secrets

    Study help links and info

    Can you help? Study help unanswered threadsRules and posting guidelines

    Sponsored content:

    HEAR

    HEAR

    Find out how a Higher Education Achievement Report can help you prove your achievements.

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.