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    (Original post by childofthesun)
    We're not here to talk about Islam.

    A reasonable(and rather obvious) assumption would be that the Lebanese team's behaviour is to do with their experiences with Israel(you know,the 2006 war), Israel's massacre of the Lebanese people ,and their continued threats against us.
    Thats not the only war that Israel has fought with arab states and a lot of this conflict stems back to anti-semetism within Islam.To deny that has norhing to do with it is absurd especially considering lebanon has a large muslim population.These Islamic beliefs influence a persons actions and its not unreasonable to assume that that could cause the lebanese team to act in an anti-semetic way.When you say Israel massacred the lebanese people are you exagerating?Its like with palestine people demonise Israel but the truth is that if they wanted to truly, they could wipe out the palestinians no problem.The fact that they havent shows the restraint excercised on Israels part.
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    (Original post by childofthesun)
    You have a really shallow understanding of the civil war
    Did I say it was black and white, or that all Christians sided with Israel? No I did not. You should argue and respond to what I have actually said not what you would prefer I had said for the purposes of your argument.

    The fact is that although different factions had declared ideologies, like Jumblatt's PSP, that could if one wanted provide a narrative of the conflict as an ideological clash of the Cold War (Marxism v Capitalism), the underlying reality was that the different parties and factions were ethno-religiously based

    The leftist, Marxist groups were Druze and Muslim and allied with other ostensibly Arab but predominantly Muslim factions like the PLO and conservative/religious factions like Amal and Hezbollah. Many of them espoused Pan-Arab ideologies of a Nasserite or even Ba'athist complexion though of course you had the nascent Shi'a consciousness of Hezbollah and other Shi'a parties (nonetheless, allied with other Arab parties with their shared Muslim faith even though in their conservatism they might have some things more in common with certain Christian factions).

    And against that you had the Christians, who mostly adhered to Lebanese nationalism, traditional free-market ideology, conservative/reactionary etc and an idea of Lebanon looking West not South and East. And looming over the whole thing was the shadow of Syria and Israel, but of course Syria much more (and later actual occupation by both Syria and Israel)

    Of course it wasn't as simple as Christian vs Muslim, but broadly the conflict was along those lines, although admittedly you had shifting alliances and backstabbing at various points
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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    Thats not the only war that Israel has fought with arab states and a lot of this conflict stems back to anti-semetism within Islam.To deny that has norhing to do with it is absurd especially considering lebanon has a large muslim population.These Islamic beliefs influence a persons actions and its not unreasonable to assume that that could cause the lebanese team to act in an anti-semetic way.When you say Israel massacred the lebanese people are you exagerating?Its like with palestine people demonise Israel but the truth is that if they wanted to truly, they could wipe out the palestinians no problem.The fact that they havent shows the restraint excercised on Israels part.
    Yes Muslims make up the majority in Lebanon, but it's about 55%, with 40% being Christian and the remaining 5% mainly the Druze. Christians in Lebanon largely view Israel in the same way as Lebanese Muslims. It's not like Christians are pro-Israel while Muslims are the opposite(there's a poll demonstrating this I'll try to link it later). Muslims hate Israel because of the war and Israeli involvement and occupation of South Lebanon, not because they're a Jewish nation. Some Lebanese people may be antisemitic, however Lebanese hatred of Israel is largely driven by the history between the two countries.

    No. I'm certainly not exaggerating when I recall how Israel bombed a UN compound in my home village in 1996, in which over 300 hundred civilians were sheltering and killed over 100 people, or in 2006 on the 10 year anniversary of the first mssacare, dropped another bomb on my family compound, killing innocent people and children. These are just 2 incidents, there were many more atrocities and killing of innocent lives by Israel.
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    Racists gonna racist.
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    Just a shame we don't treat these vermin like what they really are, no difference on the inside between them and the average skinhead troglodyte and his swastika tattoos.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Did I say it was black and white, or that all Christians sided with Israel? No I did not. You should argue and respond to what I have actually said not what you would prefer I had said for the purposes of your argument.

    The fact is that although different factions had declared ideologies, like Jumblatt's PSP, that could if one wanted provide a narrative of the conflict as an ideological clash of the Cold War (Marxism v Capitalism), the underlying reality was that the different parties and factions were ethno-religiously based

    The leftist, Marxist groups were Druze and Muslim and allied with other ostensibly Arab but predominantly Muslim factions like the PLO and conservative/religious factions like Amal and Hezbollah. Many of them espoused Pan-Arab ideologies of a Nasserite or even Ba'athist complexion though of course you had the nascent Shi'a consciousness of Hezbollah and other Shi'a parties (nonetheless, allied with other Arab parties with their shared Muslim faith even though in their conservatism they might have some things more in common with certain Christian factions).

    And against that you had the Christians, who mostly adhered to Lebanese nationalism, traditional free-market ideology, conservative/reactionary etc and an idea of Lebanon looking West not South and East. And looming over the whole thing was the shadow of Syria and Israel, but of course Syria much more (and later actual occupation by both Syria and Israel)

    Of course it wasn't as simple as Christian vs Muslim, but broadly the conflict was along those lines, although admittedly you had shifting alliances and backstabbing at various points
    I never stated you claimed it was black and white, but from your post it was clear that's how you viewed it.

    Sunni Palestinians fought against the largely Sunni Syrian army, Shia Hizbullah against Shia Amal, Muslim Amal against Muslim Palestinians, and the largely Christian remnants of the Lebanese army against the Christian Forces Libanaises. The complexities I believe are far too great to be able to say that the war was Muslim vs Christian.The rhetoric of religious divisions was utilised by the plethora of militias which sought to pose as the defenders of their own religious communities.

    This has gotten way off topic. I suggest we end the discussion here or take it to VMs
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    Israel, though. Israel just has a free pass to shriek "anti-semitism" no matter how much they shred Palestinian children into red, fleshy pulp.

    Edit: Not that the Olympics aren't about coming together and overcoming differences - but if there ever was a country who has free reign to kill their neighbours, it's Israel.
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    This is what the Olympic Games should give rise to among the athletes from countries that are at war with one another:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37018914
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    (Original post by Prince of Punani)
    Just a shame we don't treat these vermin like what they really are, no difference on the inside between them and the average skinhead troglodyte and his swastika tattoos.
    i agree with you. However in Britain at this time their more anti Jewish voices come from the far left just look at Labour
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    (Original post by Sorani)
    Israel, though. Israel just has a free pass to shriek "anti-semitism" no matter how much they shred Palestinian children into red, fleshy pulp.
    If someone says they want all Jews worldwide to be killed, they are anti-semitic, yes?
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    But they aren't at war
    Technically they are at war.
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    (Original post by admonit)
    Technically they are at war.
    Yes, but not practically. The two Koreas are nearer being at war, and just look at how their athletes are interacting.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Yes, but not practically. The two Koreas are nearer being at war, and just look at how their athletes are interacting.
    The Middle East is a delicate matter.. :cool:
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    You lot see the one about the Saudi judo competitor forfeiting her match against the Israeli competitor rather than compete against her? Pathetic*
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    You lot see the one about the Saudi judo competitor forfeiting her match against the Israeli competitor rather than compete against her? Pathetic*
    fwiw similar things have happened before http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3562808.stm
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    I understand it goes against the spirit of the games, and don't support what they did. But it's not a smart idea to put two countries who dislike each other on the same bus. You wouldn't put North and South Korea on the same bus would you?

    (Original post by looloo2134)
    if funny because a lot of Israeli athletes are Arab Muslims & Druzes themselves so their being racist & xenophobia toward their own people
    And Lebanon is like almost 50% Christian. I don't religion is the reason here :lol:
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    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
    You wouldn't put North and South Korea on the same bus would you?
    Don't tar North Koreans with the Arab brush. Didn't you see this?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37018914
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Don't tar North Koreans with the Arab brush. Didn't you see this?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37018914
    Mm fair enough, that's good to see. But it's still something you'd consider to avoid situations like what happened with the Israeli and Lebanese athletes.
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    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
    Mm fair enough, that's good to see. But it's still something you'd consider to avoid situations like what happened with the Israeli and Lebanese athletes.
    Yup. Clearly, you make sure the Lebanese travel and compete on their own as they don't understand how to behave in contact with other people.
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    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
    I understand it goes against the spirit of the games, and don't support what they did. But it's not a smart idea to put two countries who dislike each other on the same bus. You wouldn't put North and South Korea on the same bus would you?

    Well you're trying to make it sound mutual but it doesn't seem that it ever is... it's always [some other country] that won't share with Israel and never the other way around.
 
 
 
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