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"Oxbridge" forum watch

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    (Original post by generalebriety)
    Well, no. I'm talking about moving the Cambridge and Oxford subforums up one level, and putting hyperlinks to them inside the Oxbridge forum. I know it seems like pedantry, but it irritates me that the two universities are so closely bound... perhaps answering the next thing you said will explain better.


    Well, a lot of people thought I applied to Oxford. Even one of my maths teachers slipped up recently, and I'm applying for maths. I don't hold my university close to my heart - I don't even know if I've got into Cambridge yet - but I didn't even apply to Oxford. It'd be like someone saying "remember Billy, that guy who went to study maths at, you know, Liverpool or Nottingham or wherever?" - Oxford's nothing to do with me and I find it rude that people think I applied there, simply because Oxford and Cambridge, for a lot of people, are practically the same place. Same reason I get slightly irritated when people think I live in Liverpool, simply because I live near Liverpool. If I'd applied to Sheffield, and people kept thinking I'd gone to Newcastle, I'd find that rude too... but that'd never happen. As I said, it's nothing I have against Oxford, and I don't hold Cambridge close to my heart, I just think it's ridiculous that people don't care about getting the name of the university right as long as it was an easy mistake to make... which it really isn't. They could say any one of the six I applied to, but they choose to mention Oxford, because, well, you know, it's the same thing as Cambridge really. :rolleyes:

    I'm not sure any of this is entirely relevant, but perhaps it explains my attitude a bit better. This is why I think they should be treated as separate. They are similar, but they're different places, and despite their similarities, they're not linked at all. The term "Oxbridge" has always seemed a bit ridiculous to me. It's more a matter of principle than anything else, I suppose.
    Ok, well at least now I see your motivation. I think the reason people are jumping to the gun is that you've created this thread in about and people are expected something well... bigger. Really, what you're talking about is slightly pedantic - a name change on a minor level. The only resulting difference that I see would be the loss of:

    The Student Room > Universities > Oxbridge > Cambridge

    at the top of the forum. It's almost more trouble than it's worth to change it. Fair enough, the hyperlink in the university forum with separate links to "Cambridge" and "Oxford" might make sense for those not familiar with the Oxbridge terminology.

    I dunno really, I can honestly say I've never even thought about getting annoyed if people got it wrong - I'd be quite impressed they managed to remember I went to a Uni like that at all! Most people don't. Most people just say "So was it Cambridge you study at?" to which I reply "no, it was Oxford" without it really bothering me. Give it a few months and teachers (for example) will completely forget who you are and where you're headed. The simple fact is, people forget since where you end up isn't crucial to their wellbeing - you're off the conveyor belt so to speak. What university you applied to is the kind of thing you ask people without any intention of remembering.
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    Oxford and Cambridge should remain subforms of Oxbridge because the Oxbridge forum contains posts that discuss matters related to both Oxford and Cambridge. From a hierarchical standpoint, Oxford and Cambridge are each fully contained under the title of Oxbridge, and so should remain subforums. It just makes organizational sense, and what a large forum needs is organization.
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    (Original post by Willa)
    Oxford and Cambridge should remain subforms of Oxbridge because the Oxbridge forum contains posts that discuss matters related to both Oxford and Cambridge. From a hierarchical standpoint, Oxford and Cambridge are each fully contained under the title of Oxbridge, and so should remain subforums. It just makes organizational sense, and what a large forum needs is organization.
    I don't agree. "Oxbridge" is a catchall term for the things that Oxford and Cambridge have in common. I'd never say some quality that only one of the two universities was an "Oxbridge" quality - it either belongs to Cambridge or it belongs to Oxford. It highlights the similarities far too much for Oxford and Cambridge to be properly treated as separate universities. Put it this way - if I didn't know "Cambridge" was a sub-forum of "Oxbridge", it might be guessable (and in fact the first time after looking for the Cam forum for about 2 minutes, I did eventually think of looking under "O"), but there's no real reason why it should be. Wanting to talk about Cambridge - a university - is very different to wanting to talk about Oxbridge - this hypothetical entity encompassing the status, reputation and qualities that Oxford and Cambridge share, and the differences between them. I care about Oxford about as much as I care about Leeds - I mean, I take a passing interest, but (as I'm not a rower) I don't feel my time in Cambridge, if I get the grades of course, will be any more related to Oxford than it will to Leeds. There'll be similarities and there'll be differences, and I bet Leeds shares some stuff with Cambridge that Oxford doesn't, but Oxbridge focuses too much on the overarching, shared quality and reputation of those two universities, and their differences, rather than the universities themselves as individuals.
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    Is it just me who really doesn't see what all the fuss is about?

    I think it's fine as it is, and contrary to what you're saying, GE, i think it makes sense the way it is.
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    I'm with fleur - it's one of the extremely rare occasions I find myself disagreeing with Billy :s::p:
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    (Original post by calcium878)
    I'm with fleur - it's one of the extremely rare occasions I find myself disagreeing with Billy :s::p:
    Don't have to keep pointing that out, you know. :hmmm: :p:

    (Original post by fleur de lis)
    I think it's fine as it is, and contrary to what you're saying, GE, i think it makes sense the way it is.
    Like to expand on that? :p:
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    Erm... i think it makes sense to have the oxbridge forum to cover threads that won't fit under the Oxford or Cambridge forums. It makes sense to me to have Oxford and Cambridge as sub-forums of Oxbridge, as if i was going to make a thread, I could see clearly that there are specific forums for Oxford and Cambridge, and the more general Oxbridge forum and would post in the relevant place. Ok, so some people still post in Oxbridge rather than the specific forum, but I think if you had them separate, you'd end up with lots more threads in the Oxbridge forum than in the university specific forum. From a modding point of view it makes sense, as it helps to keep things organised and in the right place.

    I have to confess, I can't really understand why it's such a big deal, you do seem to be placing more importance on the matter than I feel it deserves, but then again I don't use the Oxbridge forum or it's subforums all that regularly, so it stands to reason that it doesn't bother me as much as it does you :p:
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    (Original post by fleur de lis)
    Erm... i think it makes sense to have the oxbridge forum to cover threads that won't fit under the Oxford or Cambridge forums. It makes sense to me to have Oxford and Cambridge as sub-forums of Oxbridge, as if i was going to make a thread, I could see clearly that there are specific forums for Oxford and Cambridge, and the more general Oxbridge forum and would post in the relevant place. Ok, so some people still post in Oxbridge rather than the specific forum, but I think if you had them separate, you'd end up with lots more threads in the Oxbridge forum than in the university specific forum. From a modding point of view it makes sense, as it helps to keep things organised and in the right place.

    I have to confess, I can't really understand why it's such a big deal, you do seem to be placing more importance on the matter than I feel it deserves, but then again I don't use the Oxbridge forum or it's subforums all that regularly, so it stands to reason that it doesn't bother me as much as it does you :p:
    Well... again, I never said get rid of the Oxbridge forum. I just think Oxford and Cambridge deserve to be their own forums, not subforums of Oxbridge (which makes sense on an alphabetical level as much as anything else, but also what I said a couple of posts back :p:), and it wouldn't then be too hard to create links to the Oxford and Cambridge forums inside the Oxbridge forum - and even a link to the Oxbridge forum within the Oxford and Cambridge forums if you like.

    I don't go there much myself, but I do think that, while they're obviously linked, they're not as closely linked as seems to be made out, and the individual universities themselves are certainly not sub-entities of "Oxbridge", which to my mind means something entirely different. As I said a couple of posts ^^^ that-a-way, Oxbridge doesn't mean "Oxford and Cambridge universities", it either stands for the prestige/reputation and quality of teaching/whatever and general atmosphere that they're both known to have, or for their similarities and differences, depending on context. As I said, if I wanted to talk about Cambridge, it would be a very different subject to if I wanted to talk about Oxbridge - the former is Cambridge as an individual university, the latter necessarily drags Oxford into the picture and wouldn't be anything to do with what Cambridge had that Oxford didn't, or vice-versa. You can't talk about "Oxbridge" without talking about Oxford and Cambridge at the same time.

    Am I making sense here? :p:
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    It's a form or organisation though, which is what a forum as huge as this needs. On looking through the universities forum, you'll find forums such as 'Leeds Unis', 'Scottish Unis' and 'London Unis' with the individual uni forums then stemming from there. You could argue that Glasgow University has nothing to do with Edinburgh University, apart from the fact they are both in Scotland, but it works for the purposes of organisation. I would argue the same for the Oxford and Cambridge Unis stemming from the Oxbridge forum. How exactly you interpret the term 'Oxbridge' is not all that relevant, I feel.
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    (Original post by fleur de lis)
    It's a form or organisation though, which is what a forum as huge as this needs. On looking through the universities forum, you'll find forums such as 'Leeds Unis', 'Scottish Unis' and 'London Unis' with the individual uni forums then stemming from there. You could argue that Glasgow University has nothing to do with Edinburgh University, apart from the fact they are both in Scotland, but it works for the purposes of organisation. I would argue the same for the Oxford and Cambridge Unis stemming from the Oxbridge forum. How exactly you interpret the term 'Oxbridge' is not all that relevant, I feel.
    Geographically lumping them together is ok though. :p: It's not a case of how I interpret "Oxbridge", it's a case of what the term actually means. It's not a term meaning "Oxford and Cambridge", like "Manchester unis" means "Manchester, MMU and Salford" or whatever. It's not a geographical thing and it's not really a straightforward grouping of the two universities. I can see no great harm coming from giving the universities their own subforums - in fact, I would even argue, on a purely organisational note, it'd be a hell of a lot easier to find the Cambridge forum if you're new here if you don't have to remember to look under "O". Took me a few minutes first time round.

    (Links at the top of the screen are no excuse for that, I've never used them in my life and don't plan on doing so. :p:)
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    Why don't you put up a poll to see what others think then, as so far (unless I'm mistaken) you seem to be the only one who is unhappy with the current layout
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    (Original post by generalebriety)
    It's not a case of how I interpret "Oxbridge", it's a case of what the term actually means. It's not a term meaning "Oxford and Cambridge",
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxbridge
    Read the first couple of sentences.
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    (Original post by fleur de lis)
    Why don't you put up a poll to see what others think then, as so far (unless I'm mistaken) you seem to be the only one who is unhappy with the current layout
    Ah, forget it. :rolleyes: No offence, but you all seem so obsessed with keeping things organised that you can't understand simple logic. Fleur, you're not even bothering to defend your case. Gah. I shall try one more example and then I shall consider this a waste of my time.

    Consider this thread. The Student Room > Academic > Academic Help > Science > Physics > angular velocity. Angular velocity can legitimately be discussed as part of physics, science, academic help, academic, and TSR. Now consider this thread. The Student Room > University and Universities > Universities > Oxbridge > Cambridge > Cambridge Colleges > Selwyn. Selwyn college can legitimately be discussed as part of Cambridge colleges, Cam, universities, university, and TSR, but if I was talking about Selwyn, I wouldn't be talking about Oxbridge. That word refers only to the shared qualities of Cambridge and Oxford. It just doesn't make sense. Angular velocity may be part of science or academia, but Selwyn isn't part of Oxbridge.
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    (Original post by calcium878)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxbridge
    Read the first couple of sentences.
    Please note that, as Wikipedia is written by the general public and not some authority on university names, that only serves to strengthen my case. It's a complete misunderstanding of the term.
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    (Original post by generalebriety)
    Please note that, as Wikipedia is written by the general public and not some authority on university names, that only serves to strengthen my case. It's a complete misunderstanding of the term.
    In terms of popular use it's fine to me.
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    I'm not denying your argument, but I think it's fine as it is, and it makes sense to me as it is. I'm not saying you're wrong. You're being rather defensive here.

    You also seem to have trouble distinguishing between my opinion as a person, and my role as a mod. Just because I disagree with you, it doesn't mean that a change is out of the question, so i don't see why a poll can't be put up to guage opinions.
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    (Original post by Athena)


    Yes it is! It's a college of a collegiate university, and Oxbridge as a term represents both Oxford and Cambridge. It has shared qualities with Oxbridge.

    Also, don't you think you're being quite rude to Fleur?
    I still disagree. And I didn't think I was being rude to fleur, no. But I do think she's refusing to make any sort of logical argument whatsoever against what I'm saying, instead telling me that it's good for organisational purposes and that I should create a poll, which does irritate me slightly, because I know it's good for organisational purposes, and I know most people here will disagree with me because even the tiniest little change on here causes outrage, regardless of the reasons behind it. :rolleyes: No one is actually addressing anything I say any more, just naming reasons why Cambridge and Oxford are similar places, telling me why it's convenient to have the two together, and so on.

    (Original post by Athena)
    Also, what about the Oxbridge admissions conferences that are run all over the country, jointly, by the two universities?
    What about them? Selwyn College still has the final say on who it accepts and who it doesn't. Don't really see what you're getting at here.
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    (Original post by fleur de lis)
    I'm not denying your argument, but I think it's fine as it is, and it makes sense to me as it is. I'm not saying you're wrong. You're being rather defensive here.

    You also seem to have trouble distinguishing between my opinion as a person, and my role as a mod. Just because I disagree with you, it doesn't mean that a change is out of the question, so i don't see why a poll can't be put up to guage opinions.
    Of course I'm being defensive. I've put my case forward quite strongly about what a ridiculous term I think "Oxbridge" is, the stereotypes involved, the complete lack of logic and the general belief of the public that the two are identical entities and how I genuinely don't see much of an actual connection between the two apart from their academic standards, the atmosphere, and so on, and people are coming out with stuff like "Don't get rid of the Oxbridge forum!" when I never suggested anything of the sort. The opinions thing I've answered in my above post. No one will agree with me no matter how much logic I throw at the situation. I could just as easily be saying "get rid of the Oxbridge link at the top, it makes the place look elitist and will potentially scare people off", but because some people are used to that link being there, they'd automatically think it's somehow "logical" to have that there and not a link to Bristol or UCL. People are very set in their ways here.
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    Useless post alert

    I've decided Billy's logic and Athena's/Fleur's grouping argument are both correct. I think it should be kept as it is.
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    (Original post by Athena)
    But organisation is what matters here on TSR. For purposes of linking from the main universities page, and to reduce clutter, universities need to be grouped. Oxford and Cambridge are more alike with each other than any other unis locally. If you split them into unrelated forums, that then link internally to an Oxbridge forum, you'd get people posting "should I apply to Oxford" in the Ox forum and the same person saying "should I apply to Cambridge" in the Cam forum, rather than once in the Oxbridge forum. Once you split Oxbridge up, other grouped unis will start to want to be split, and then linked internally (eg Man and Man Met). It turns the heirarchy of the forum (going from general to specific) round, so you go general university, specific university, intermediate-specific university.
    I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I don't think "Oxbridge" is a term meaning "Oxford and Cambridge" specifically. It has connotations to it that "Manchester unis" doesn't... "Oxbridge" is not a simple grouping word for the two.
 
 
 
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