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    woops
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    (Original post by Tomber)
    er, isn't that treating them differently?

    though I guess if they want to refuse treatment it's their prerogative.
    She wants to know how.
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    Okie, sorry for that.

    My youngest brother went in for circumsision fistula repair and there was alot of fuss over whether a catheter should be placed in or not. The surgeon said it had to be in, as it would support the urethra and drain urine. My mother didn't want anybody looking at my bro's genitals. Ultimately after seeing an Imam, we were taught that it is alright to have the area inspected so long as it is a person of the same sex.
    Consequently, we had to wait 3 days to find a male nurse to pull the catheter out...
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    thanks, i see common sense is light on the forum tonight
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    No problem.

    Moral of the story, don't get circumsized!
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Okie, sorry for that.

    My youngest brother went in for circumsision fistula repair and there was alot of fuss over whether a catheter should be placed in or not. The surgeon said it had to be in, as it would support the urethra and drain urine. My mother didn't want anybody looking at my bro's genitals. Ultimately after seeing an Imam, we were taught that it is alright to have the area inspected so long as it is a person of the same sex.
    Consequently, we had to wait 3 days to find a male nurse to pull the catheter out...
    See its things like that that worries me, why is it such a bad thing for a professional to do their job? Haveing a catheter increases your risk of dying by a factor of three and means you have to usually soend 3 more days in hospital, surely that is more important then a male removing a catheter? Im not having a go i am really interested
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    (Original post by Trigger)
    See its things like that that worries me, why is it such a bad thing for a professional to do their job? Haveing a catheter increases your risk of dying by a factor of three and means you have to usually soend 3 more days in hospital, surely that is more important then a male removing a catheter? Im not having a go i am really interested
    See the link I gave you. Male/female interaction to be kept to a minimum, but for medical purposes, exception do apply, and sometimes its unavoidable.
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    (Original post by Trigger)
    See its things like that that worries me, why is it such a bad thing for a professional to do their job? Haveing a catheter increases your risk of dying by a factor of three and means you have to usually soend 3 more days in hospital, surely that is more important then a male removing a catheter? Im not having a go i am really interested
    Makes no sense to me either.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Okie, sorry for that.

    My youngest brother went in for circumsision fistula repair and there was alot of fuss over whether a catheter should be placed in or not. The surgeon said it had to be in, as it would support the urethra and drain urine. My mother didn't want anybody looking at my bro's genitals. Ultimately after seeing an Imam, we were taught that it is alright to have the area inspected so long as it is a person of the same sex.
    Consequently, we had to wait 3 days to find a male nurse to pull the catheter out...
    If your mother was so worried could she or your father not have learned how to remove the catheter? It's not such a difficult job and provided the parent followed the instructions there shouldn't have been any problems. I know from personal experience that if it came to having a catheter in for three extra days or pulling it out myself, which I would choose!
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    how did you pull it out yourself without bleeding all over the place :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Trigger)
    See its things like that that worries me, why is it such a bad thing for a professional to do their job? Haveing a catheter increases your risk of dying by a factor of three and means you have to usually soend 3 more days in hospital, surely that is more important then a male removing a catheter? Im not having a go i am really interested
    What would concern me is if medical resources get tied up with this kind of thing. If they did have to stay three extra days in hospital, then that is a bed being taken up for three days that doesn't need to be. If a patient was just being particularly prudish I wouldn't be happy with the bed being taken up for three days, and I don't see why religious beliefs would be any different.
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    The health service isn't run for the benefit of the population at large, its for the patient in question. If the patient in question wants to wait three days to have their catheter sorted, than that's what happens. How would you like it if you were turfed out of bed because someone decided you were a strain on healthcare resources (Well, sooner or later you have to get people out but you see what I mean?)

    Another key point to this that came up early on was "Treating differently". Equity of treatment is something everyone should aspire to in their job, but that doesn't mean treating everyone the same. That's just treating them as another widget in the machine (As the DoH would just love you to) when you should be treated as themselves, with whatever beliefs and fears they happen to have with them. No matter how odd or, frankly, ridiculous they are to you.
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    That is as the case maybe, but working on a surgical neuro ward, if someone wants to wait 3 days to have a cath out it puts a strain on the emergencys coming in. At the end of the day i do like to think i always have a patients best interests in mind, but instances like that do make me wonder...
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    (Original post by AEH)
    The health service isn't run for the benefit of the population at large, its for the patient in question. If the patient in question wants to wait three days to have their catheter sorted, than that's what happens. How would you like it if you were turfed out of bed because someone decided you were a strain on healthcare resources (Well, sooner or later you have to get people out but you see what I mean?)

    Another key point to this that came up early on was "Treating differently". Equity of treatment is something everyone should aspire to in their job, but that doesn't mean treating everyone the same. That's just treating them as another widget in the machine (As the DoH would just love you to) when you should be treated as themselves, with whatever beliefs and fears they happen to have with them. No matter how odd or, frankly, ridiculous they are to you.
    Because a female nurse shouldn't see his brother's private parts?!!

    God forget he has a serious accident and have to clothes removed straight away!

    There's a limit! Because his brother was lying in bed for no reason what so ever one precious bed couldn't be occupied by someone who needed it! What if it took 2 weeks or more? This is a hospital which is needed to treat patients on a limited taxed paid budget, not a privately paid hotel. A hotel caters to every individual’s needs.

    If his mother was so worried she should have paid for private care.
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    Basically, if it's urgent and a very important matter, then it isn't a problem. hell, you can even eat pork if that's the only option you have if you are starving to death.

    The fact of the matter is, if it's life threatening, there are exceptions so that religion won't be an uphold in your own health and others.
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    I kinda know a Muslim, my own mother but she's a nurse too :p: And she doesn't even follow it anyway she's naughty haha (she's one of those 'yeah I am coz of family, but I moved here so I don't follow it) so I don't think I'd be able to help you there Actually I have another friend who is Islamic and sometimes she buys mini skirts, then gives them to me (I'm Agnostic like my father)
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    As has been said above, ideally a male doctor or nurse should treat a male patient, and a female doctor or nurse a female patient. However, unless they were being seriously obstructive (and stupid), a sensible Muslim wouldn't refuse treatment by a professional of the opposite sex if it was an emergency or there would be no one else available for a long period of time. I wouldn't refuse treatment by a male doctor if I needed it, I would be more bothered about the personal embarassment of a male doctor seeing my private parts than concerned about it in the religious sense.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Okie, sorry for that.

    My youngest brother went in for circumsision fistula repair and there was alot of fuss over whether a catheter should be placed in or not. The surgeon said it had to be in, as it would support the urethra and drain urine. My mother didn't want anybody looking at my bro's genitals. Ultimately after seeing an Imam, we were taught that it is alright to have the area inspected so long as it is a person of the same sex.
    Consequently, we had to wait 3 days to find a male nurse to pull the catheter out...
    problem is there are so many imams out there, some of whom are utterly backward and uneducated. alot dont even understand the slightest thing about medicine.

    The muslim council of britain has pretty good advice on it all somewhere.
    as far as i know the quran was pretty explicit that the relationship between a doctor and his patient transcends sex divides. It is in religious terms utterly fine for a male doctor to view the intimate parts of a woman.
    however, the issue then is not a religious one, but a cultural one. its nothing to do with being a muslim, often more to do with culture.
    after all, the quran sets minimum sstandards of modesty/morality for its followers. those that follow a 'higher' code therefore may find it hard to conform to a lower one - even if it is still within the bounds of beinga good 'follower.
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    (Original post by AEH)
    The health service isn't run for the benefit of the population at large, its for the patient in question.
    But it's all linked up. It is also run for the benefit of me, and what happens if I need a bed but someone else has taken up a bed for days because they don't want a female nurse to see their genitals? I wouldn't want to wait three days in a corridor just so that their sensibilities aren't offended.

    If the patient in question wants to wait three days to have their catheter sorted, than that's what happens.
    Really? So if I decided I wasn't quite right yet and wanted to spend another couple of nights in the hospital, they'd be fine with that too?

    How would you like it if you were turfed out of bed because someone decided you were a strain on healthcare resources (Well, sooner or later you have to get people out but you see what I mean?)
    And how would you feel if you couldn't get a bed because someone doesn't want a female to see them naked? Personally, I would accept that it is a National health service and appreciate that other people need the bed more than I do. I'd like to think other people wouldn't be as selfish as to tie up a bed for three days if other patients needed it.
    Another key point to this that came up early on was "Treating differently". Equity of treatment is something everyone should aspire to in their job, but that doesn't mean treating everyone the same. That's just treating them as another widget in the machine (As the DoH would just love you to) when you should be treated as themselves, with whatever beliefs and fears they happen to have with them. No matter how odd or, frankly, ridiculous they are to you.
    Sure, accommodate them as much as you can. But not to the extent that other patients' care would be affected. I don't know the specifics of this case - perhaps there were plenty of other beds, though I doubt that in the NHS - but if his waiting three days for a male person to remove the catheter affected other patients then I wouldn't be happy with it.
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    I think muslims tend to prefere a nurse of the same sex seeing to them. Then again so would most people.
 
 
 
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