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Shall I bother to apply for a PhD if I'm not going to get funding? watch

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    (Original post by john2054)
    You do realise that this would be a first overall, given that universities allow for one or two percent of give, especially if the overall average is above the desired mark?
    Given the OP tells you that he graduated with a 2.1, this is clearly false. As for the general point, sometimes leeway can be given, but it's far from guaranteed, of course.
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    (Original post by john2054)
    You do realise that this would be a first overall, given that universities allow for one or two percent of give, especially if the overall average is above the desired mark?
    At all of the universities I've attended and worked at, if someone was sitting on 69 at the end of their exams, their case would be considered closely by the court of examiners as to whether they should be awarded a first or a 2.1, taking into account both the overall average as well as the spread of marks across papers. If someone was left on a 69 and awarded a 2.1, it was done deliberately and there is no 'give' there - if the OP said she had a first when the decision was to award her a 2.1 with an overall average of 69, it would be a false claim. Yes, it's a very strong 2.1 and very close to a first, but it's not a first.
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    (Original post by omgwhat)
    Hey ho,

    I just graduated with a 2.1 (69 overall with a 2.1 in second year and 1.1 in final year) in History from the University of Exeter and have a place at MPhil American History at Cambridge. Considering people with firsts are unable to score funding for a PhD, should I even bother to spend all that time applying for them?

    I feel like even if I get a distinction from Cambridge, it wouldn't matter since people are very fussy over BA grades.

    Thanks for your time!
    This is what she said, a 1.1 in the final year and 69 overall. There is a 2% give way at my university, with the final year's grades being the deciding factor. And being that she said she passed the final year with a first, that means in theory she would have definitely got a first overall, no questions asked. You guys are just too gullible i'm afraid!
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    (Original post by omgwhat)
    Hey ho,

    I just graduated with a 2.1 (69 overall with a 2.1 in second year and 1.1 in final year) in History from the University of Exeter and have a place at MPhil American History at Cambridge. Considering people with firsts are unable to score funding for a PhD, should I even bother to spend all that time applying for them?

    I feel like even if I get a distinction from Cambridge, it wouldn't matter since people are very fussy over BA grades.

    Thanks for your time!
    hi, although i'm not applying for a PHD, in fact i just did my GCSE's but noticed you went to the university of Exeter for History, something i want to do. do you mind if i ask what you got at GCSE and A-Levels, if Exeter is any good and any tips, i know its a lot to ask but you seem like the perfect choice - cheers!
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    (Original post by john2054)
    This is what she said, a 1.1 in the final year and 69 overall. There is a 2% give way at my university, with the final year's grades being the deciding factor. And being that she said she passed the final year with a first, that means in theory she would have definitely got a first overall, no questions asked. You guys are just too gullible i'm afraid!
    Take a look at the posters history on TSR, they are clearly a graduate. It's perfectly possible to get a first in your final year or dissertation but get a 2.1 overall, not everywhere rounds up so generously.
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    (Original post by john2054)
    This is what she said, a 1.1 in the final year and 69 overall. There is a 2% give way at my university, with the final year's grades being the deciding factor. And being that she said she passed the final year with a first, that means in theory she would have definitely got a first overall, no questions asked. You guys are just too gullible i'm afraid!
    Every uni can set its own rounding-up policy.

    My Masters uni had a fixed 0.2% tolerance where 69.8% and 69.9% were automatically upgraded to a First. 69.7% or lower remained at a 2:1. The policy was introduced to save time with Exam Board deliberations. For the final grade, student appeals below 69.8% were not permitted as it was determined that disputed coursework/dissertation marks should have been appealed individually before that point. The uni basically abolished final grade appeals which were solely aimed at getting a student over a grade threshold.

    My current uni has an Exam Board system of reviewing each final degree mark of 68% and above, with no automatic upgrades. However the assumption is that marks will not be rounded up unless a member of that student's teaching staff makes a case that the final mark does not reflect the overall ability of the student. It is rare for this to happen and the Exam Board review is usually a tick box exercise which takes a minute or two at most. Student appeals are permitted for final grades of 68% and 69%, but again, they have to be supported by a member of staff in order to even reach the Exam Board. It's way more negotiable and flexible than my Masters uni.

    Regardless, 69% is not a shabby mark and at most unis it will not automatically exclude you from PhD consideraton on its own.
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    (Original post by threeportdrift)
    Take a look at the posters history on TSR, they are clearly a graduate. Just because you know slack-arse institutions that give away grades for free, doesn't mean all do. It's perfectly possible to get a first in your final year or dissertation but get a 2.1 overall, not everywhere rounds up so generously.
    I didn't go to a slack arsed institution. This is very offensive. They didn't give me my grade for free.
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    (Original post by john2054)
    This is what she said, a 1.1 in the final year and 69 overall. There is a 2% give way at my university, with the final year's grades being the deciding factor. And being that she said she passed the final year with a first, that means in theory she would have definitely got a first overall, no questions asked. You guys are just too gullible i'm afraid!
    It's irrelevant what she would have got "in theory" at your university. She graduated with a 2.1.
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    (Original post by john2054)
    I didn't go to a slack arsed institution. This is very offensive. They didn't give me my grade for free.
    I didn't say anything about the institution you went to, your grade, or how you earned it.

    I said you were using evidence from low grade institutions and that most institutions (ie higher quality ones) did not have such a flexible approach to grading standards.
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    (Original post by threeportdrift)
    I didn't say anything about the institution you went to, your grade, or how you earned it.

    I said you were using evidence from low grade institutions and that most institutions (ie higher quality ones) did not have such a flexible approach to grading standards.

    Please reread your original post very carefully:
    (Original post by threeportdrift)
    Take a look at the posters history on TSR, they are clearly a graduate. Just because you know slack-arse institutions that give away grades for free, doesn't mean all do. It's perfectly possible to get a first in your final year or dissertation but get a 2.1 overall, not everywhere rounds up so generously.

    You called my university a 'slack-arsed institution' which gives away 'grades for free'. This smacks of not just ignorance to the thousands of hard working alumini who quite rightly earn their grades on derby, year on year, but also the system of cross marking which operates at Derby, and i can guarantee that there are no 'easy marks' given. It is obvious you consider the fact that i graded with a 2.1 a fluke, whereas the op was clearly worthy of more than this.

    I will shut up now.
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    (Original post by john2054)
    ....
    I said 'know', not attended, graduated from, studied at or anything else. You have inferred it was a slight on your experience. It was a slight on your breadth of knowledge, because you were extrapolating from a limited and not very representative data set.
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    (Original post by john2054)
    Please reread your original post very carefully:
    (Original post by threeportdrift)
    Take a look at the posters history on TSR, they are clearly a graduate. Just because you know slack-arse institutions that give away grades for free, doesn't mean all do. It's perfectly possible to get a first in your final year or dissertation but get a 2.1 overall, not everywhere rounds up so generously.

    You called my university a 'slack-arsed institution' which gives away 'grades for free'. This smacks of not just ignorance to the thousands of hard working alumini who quite rightly earn their grades on derby, year on year, but also the system of cross marking which operates at Derby, and i can guarantee that there are no 'easy marks' given. It is obvious you consider the fact that i graded with a 2.1 a fluke, whereas the op was clearly worthy of more than this.

    I will shut up now.
    He didn't call your university that; you need to read more carefully.You also say the "OP was worthy of more than this", but plainly that's not the view shared by Exeter.
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    (Original post by john2054)
    Please reread your original post very carefully:
    (Original post by threeportdrift)
    Take a look at the posters history on TSR, they are clearly a graduate. Just because you know slack-arse institutions that give away grades for free, doesn't mean all do. It's perfectly possible to get a first in your final year or dissertation but get a 2.1 overall, not everywhere rounds up so generously.

    You called my university a 'slack-arsed institution' which gives away 'grades for free'. This smacks of not just ignorance to the thousands of hard working alumini who quite rightly earn their grades on derby, year on year, but also the system of cross marking which operates at Derby, and i can guarantee that there are no 'easy marks' given. It is obvious you consider the fact that i graded with a 2.1 a fluke, whereas the op was clearly worthy of more than this.

    I will shut up now.
    Universities of a lower quality are inevitably more generous with grades. It is obviously more difficult to get a 2.1 at Oxbridge than Derby, for example.
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    (Original post by macromicro)
    Universities of a lower quality are inevitably more generous with grades. It is obviously more difficult to get a 2.1 at Oxbridge than Derby, for example.
    In 2010, in Cambridge University (excluding subjects with an undivided Class II):

    Class I: 22.9 %
    Class II, division 1: 57.6 %
    (total 80.5%)
    Source: http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/univ/camd...ate.html#exams

    Derby:
    • Good Honours66.1
    http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/derby

    According to these statistics it is something like 15% harder to get a 2.1 at Derby than it is at Oxbridge. So you are wrong there again.
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    (Original post by john2054)
    In 2010, in Cambridge University (excluding subjects with an undivided Class II):

    Class I: 22.9 %
    Class II, division 1: 57.6 %
    (total 80.5%)
    Source: http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/univ/camd...ate.html#exams

    Derby:
    • Good Honours66.1
    http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/derby

    According to these statistics it is something like 15% harder to get a 2.1 at Derby than it is at Oxbridge. So you are wrong there again.
    The exams and coursework will be harder at Cambridge though - university exams of course aren't standardised, so it will naturally be more difficult to get a good grade at a university such as Cambridge. Derby is obviously still a great university, but it's different to Cambridge, as reflected by the course entry requirements - Derby requires 300 points for law, for example (so BBB), while Cambridge requires A*AA. Overall, therefore, it's harder to get a 2:1 at Oxbridge than at Darby.
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    (Original post by doctorwhofan98)
    The exams and coursework will be harder at Cambridge though - university exams of course aren't standardised, so it will naturally be more difficult to get a good grade at a university such as Cambridge. Derby is obviously still a great university, but it's different to Cambridge, as reflected by the course entry requirements - Derby requires 300 points for law, for example (so BBB), while Cambridge requires A*AA. Overall, therefore, it's harder to get a 2:1 at Oxbridge than at Darby.
    i agree for the joe or jane blogs off the street, it will be harder to get any degree at oxbridge, than derby, simply from the high entrance criteria. But that being said, for those who have been accepted, it is actually significantly easier to get a 'good' degree at oxbridge, than at derby. as the statistics i provided demonstrated.

    i think at oxbridge it is assumed that everyone is as good as the other, and so they hand out firsts like confetti, whereas at Derby, because of the overall lower entrance requirements, it is much harder to get them. again as the statistics show. and i can verify this from the fact that i have just competed my degree at derby, and worked bloody hard for it, thanks.
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    (Original post by doctorwhofan98)
    The exams and coursework will be harder at Cambridge though - university exams of course aren't standardised, so it will naturally be more difficult to get a good grade at a university such as Cambridge. Derby is obviously still a great university, but it's different to Cambridge, as reflected by the course entry requirements - Derby requires 300 points for law, for example (so BBB), while Cambridge requires A*AA. Overall, therefore, it's harder to get a 2:1 at Oxbridge than at Darby.
    I'm pretty sure that all uni exams have to be checked and moderated by an external lecturer so although not standardised they are of similar difficulty. Especially if the course is accredited because then they are also monitored and checked by another external orginisation too.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    I'm pretty sure that all uni exams have to be checked and moderated by an external lecturer so although not standardised they are of similar difficulty. Especially if the course is accredited because then they are also monitored and checked by another external orginisation too.
    The exams are often moderated externally, but they're written by the lecturers at each university, who are the experts in their field. Exams are in no way standardised like A levels and there's no set curriculum, so the difficulty of exams at Cambridge and ex-polys will be worlds apart. Some degrees are accredited, like law, but the checks that occur aren't overly significant - they'll check that certain modules are passed, but what's on the exam paper and the difficulty of the papers is up to the individual university; just because Cambridge and Huddersfield offer qualifying law degrees, and they both offer contract law, doesn't mean that the papers will be similar.
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    (Original post by doctorwhofan98)
    The exams are often moderated externally, but they're written by the lecturers at each university, who are the experts in their field. Exams are in no way standardised like A levels and there's no set curriculum, so the difficulty of exams at Cambridge and ex-polys will be worlds apart. Some degrees are accredited, like law, but the checks that occur aren't overly significant - they'll check that certain modules are passed, but what's on the exam paper and the difficulty of the papers is up to the individual university; just because Cambridge and Huddersfield offer qualifying law degrees, and they both offer contract law, doesn't mean that the papers will be similar.
    I'm pretty sure you'll find that accredited degrees will have the core papers checked to make sure they have what they say on the tin... Also you'll find that as you move up the rankings of unis (generally) you see more people getting higher grades. If your theory were correct we'd expect to see relitively similar distributions in each uni which isn't the case.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    I'm pretty sure you'll find that accredited degrees will have the core papers checked to make sure they have what they say on the tin... Also you'll find that as you move up the rankings of unis (generally) you see more people getting higher grades. If your theory were correct we'd expect to see relitively similar distributions in each uni which isn't the case.
    That's fine in theory, but simply isn't borne out in practice. You can grab the data sets yourself and compare. Look at the average UCAS point scores on entry for the top 10 unis and the bottom 10 unis, and compare them to the final grades of the top and bottom 10. Sure, your claim is borne out a little bit, there will be a few more people getting 1sts and 2.1s in the top 10, but there will be a significant overlap, whereas there is zero overlap in the UCAS scores, in fact they are miles apart.

    The only possible reason, other than harder exams/higher standards in the exams at the top 10 universities is that the bottom 10 are performing absolute miracles in terms of teaching. Whilst undoubtedly there are individual cases of outstanding teaching practice, and cases of late bloomers absolutely flourishing in the uni environment and getting a top 1st off weak A levels etc, it is patently not the case that the teaching quality at universities with weaker entry standards so outperforms that at universities with the highest entry standards that degree grades can be of any sort of equivalence. It simply is harder, in intellectual terms (not necessarily individual effort), to get a 2.1 or 1st at a top 10 university than it is at a bottom 10 university, with a gradation in between.
 
 
 
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