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Should i be drinking protein shakes? watch

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    (Original post by WoodyMKC)
    Didn't catch this edit, but no mate. In terms of protein, whey protein supplements have an outstanding amino acid profile and are considered a top quality source of protein. I've been getting about 2/3 of my protein from whey for a couple of years now and my growth has been absolutely fine. A balanced diet will get you the nutrients you need, we're not getting all of our nutrients from proteins.
    Eggs also have an outstanding amino acid profile. And other nutrients not found in powders. Also the powders that I have bought were low in BCAAs. You're growth has been fine but it would have been fine with whole foods, perhaps better.

    Btw, Im not against powders here I'm just arguing that it should only be an add-on to your diet.
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    (Original post by mcneill98)
    Cheaper than chicken is what I meant. Where do the other nutrients come from ? Testosterone is partially made from zinc, b6 and magnesium which if i remember correctly are present in milk. Saturated fat supports hormone regulation and T levels.

    400 above maintenance is overkill ? How so?
    (Original post by mcneill98)
    Eggs also have an outstanding amino acid profile. And other nutrients not found in powders. Also the powders that I have bought were low in BCAAs. You're growth has been fine but it would have been fine with whole foods, perhaps better.

    Btw, Im not against powders here I'm just arguing that it should only be an add-on to your diet.

    There are many sources of magnesium and zinc. Beans, whole grains, chocolate, spinach, mushrooms... just off the top of my head. I'm not saying that I don't drink milk and eat eggs because I do, but as a source of protein I certainly don't rely on them. Especially milk, it's like 10% protein, and the nutrients you get from it are available elsewhere. If you want to get the bulk of your protein from whey powder, that's absolutely fine. As I've said, it's just as quality a source as egg or milk protein, it's cheaper and the other nutrients can be had elsewhere from much cheaper sources of food. You're a fool to your own wallet if you refuse to drink more than a certain amount of whey protein simply because some article told you that it's labelled a supplement so you should only have so much, yet you drink enough milk to get a good amount of your protein from. It's literally derived from dairy, it's an actual food supplement.

    Natural testosterone levels on bodybuilding are hugely overstated btw. Just as a bit of anecdotal evidence - there are guys in their late teens in my gym, who have been lifting for a few years, and at their age will have an abundance of testosterone in their system. I'm in my mid 20s and have had fairly low testosterone levels for the past few years that I've been lifting, yet I've made much better progress. Not saying it doesn't help to have higher testosterone, but not by any great degree. Of course, testosterone is the primary steroid used by bodybuilders, but the androgen receptors in the body don't quite respond to endogenous hormones in the same way as they do exogenous (artificial) hormones.

    Simple really. You can't force the body to build more muscle than it's naturally capable of doing, and it doesn't take 400-600 calories a day to maximise your growth potential. Sure, once you're advanced, you'll need an extra few hundred calories to maintain a positive energy and nitrogen balance to feed growth, but as a beginner this isn't needed. For the first 6-12 months you can eat at maintenance and still grow like a weed, I know I certainly did. 400 is pushing it in either sense, 600 is way too much. You'll just get needlessly fat and won't experience any extra muscle gain.
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    (Original post by I am Kira)
    I had really weak legs and incredibly poor balance before working out
    I did 16kg last time and that was quite difficult I could really feel the stress on my fourth set of 8
    I'm not looking into gaining weight, I'm 12 stone, 5 foot 10 I think? Just want a more toned body, I do have quite alot of body fat for a small build
    I'd recommend strength training for becoming toned but not putting on much weight. Maybe look into 5x5, I used to do it and found it good for strength and a bit of growth. Also tone only comes with fat loss, the fat will still cover the muscles no matter what lifting you do, although lifting heavy will help lose fat too.
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    (Original post by WoodyMKC)
    There are many sources of magnesium and zinc. Beans, whole grains, chocolate, spinach, mushrooms... just off the top of my head. I'm not saying that I don't drink milk and eat eggs because I do, but as a source of protein I certainly don't rely on them. Especially milk, it's like 10% protein, and the nutrients you get from it are available elsewhere. Natural testosterone levels on bodybuilding are hugely overstated btw. Just as a bit of anecdotal evidence - there are guys in their late teens in my gym, who have been lifting for a few years, and at their age will have an abundance of testosterone in their system. I'm in my mid 20s and have had fairly low testosterone levels for the past few years that I've been lifting, yet I've made much better progress. Not saying it doesn't help to have higher testosterone, but not by any great degree. Of course, testosterone is the primary steroid used by bodybuilders, but the androgen receptors in the body don't quite respond to endogenous hormones in the same way as they do exogenous (artificial) hormones.

    Simple really. You can't force the body to build more muscle than it's naturally capable of doing. Sure, once you're advanced, you'll need an extra few hundred calories to maintain a positive energy and nitrogen balance to feed growth, but as a beginner this isn't needed. For the first 6-12 months you can eat at maintenance and still grow like a weed, I know I certainly did. 400 is pushing it in either sense, 600 is way too much. You'll just get needlessly fat and won't experience any extra muscle gain.
    Milk is 3.5g per 100ml. So 2 pints a day is about 40g of slow digesting casein protein. 40g is a good amount. Were these teens and you tested for T ? T spikes usually at mid 20s so I find that a bit off.
    Even if the body builds a small amount of muscle, it will need more nutrients. Calories imo aren't so important but to get enough macros it usually means higher calories, even if 400 is too high the principle remains.
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    (Original post by mcneill98)
    Milk is 3.5g per 100ml. So 2 pints a day is about 40g of slow digesting casein protein. 40g is a good amount.
    40g of protein per 500 calories (and that's semi-skimmed) is NOT a good amount. To get 40g of protein from whey would be less than 200 calories, and you then have room for some better quality carbs rather than all that milk-sugar.


    (Original post by mcneill98)
    Were these teens and you tested for T ? T spikes usually at mid 20s so I find that a bit off.
    Even if the body builds a small amount of muscle, it will need more nutrients. Calories imo aren't so important but to get enough macros it usually means higher calories, even if 400 is too high the principle remains.

    ...sorry? Where on earth did you get that info from? Testosterone peaks during adolescence, i.e. up to 20 years old. Everybody knows this. It begins to decline once you get into your 20s - you've done all your growing up and gone through puberty, the body doesn't need excessive levels of testosterone anymore. Why do you think your voice deepens, body and facial hair grows, muscles grow a little and your sex drive goes nuts as you go through puberty? Testosterone, that's why. And yes, I've been tested numerous times, that's of course how I know where my T levels are at.

    (Original post by mcneill98)
    Even if the body builds a small amount of muscle, it will need more nutrients. Calories imo aren't so important but to get enough macros it usually means higher calories, even if 400 is too high the principle remains.
    So why do you need an extra 400-600 then? You've recommended .6g of protein per lb of bodyweight, which is pretty conservative in itself, so not many calories there. Carbs and fats don't have a direct effect on muscle growth beyond a certain point - doesn't take much glucose to keep all glycogen stores full, and doesn't take 100s of grams of fats to fuel the relevant bodily functions - so why would you need so many? It's quite simple really - your caloric intake dictates the amount of weight gained and lost. The macros, or more specifically, the protein:carbs & fats ratio dictates the composition of that weight gain/loss to a degree, but calories are king for controlling weight gain or weight loss, and only a certain amount of muscle per week can be built and no more than a few hundred calories over maintenance is needed to facilitate that.
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    I usually have a shake when I wake up if I'm in a rush (therefore don't have time to make anything) and after a workout, but I wouldn't recommend taking them as a protein alternative - they should supplement a balanced diet
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    (Original post by WoodyMKC)
    40g of protein per 500 calories (and that's semi-skimmed) is NOT a good amount. To get 40g of protein from whey would be less than 200 calories, and you then have room for some better quality carbs rather than all that milk-sugar.





    ...sorry? Where on earth did you get that info from? Testosterone peaks during adolescence, i.e. up to 20 years old. Everybody knows this. It begins to decline once you get into your 20s - you've done all your growing up and gone through puberty, the body doesn't need excessive levels of testosterone anymore. Why do you think your voice deepens, body and facial hair grows, muscles grow a little and your sex drive goes nuts as you go through puberty? Testosterone, that's why. And yes, I've been tested numerous times, that's of course how I know where my T levels are at.



    So why do you need an extra 400-600 then? You've recommended .6g of protein per lb of bodyweight, which is pretty conservative in itself, so not many calories there. Carbs and fats don't have a direct effect on muscle growth beyond a certain point - doesn't take much glucose to keep all glycogen stores full, and doesn't take 100s of grams of fats to fuel the relevant bodily functions - so why would you need so many? It's quite simple really - your caloric intake dictates the amount of weight gained and lost. The macros, or more specifically, the protein:carbs & fats ratio dictates the composition of that weight gain/loss to a degree, but calories are king for controlling weight gain or weight loss, and only a certain amount of muscle per week can be built and no more than a few hundred calories over maintenance is needed to facilitate that.
    i dont have much time, but in short yes T is highest in the 20's and declines usually after mid-20s. Highest T in adolescence is a myth. Facial hair etc. grows because T is on the rise but not at highest. If T was directly linked to facial hair or deep voice this would mean that old men would have no facial hair or deep voices. In fact I've seen studies showing young 30's have highest.

    Stop the broscience. Calories aren't as important as you say, consider the keto diet. If this was true then I could get 50% of my calories from drinking Coke and have no weight gain. Hormonal effects change depending on the nutrients, and the loss or more we eat changes our metabolism. For somebody like me who doesnt gain weight easily the extra calories from milk is great. Also Lactose is slow digesting which means it gives slow release energy and has less of a insulin spike.
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    So, your body can supposedly absorbe up to 240g of protein a day (10g an hour). You're probably awake for 14-17 hours a day and in that time you have 3 meals. I'd say that you should probably split your meals into maybe 4 or 5 a day so that your body can properly digest the food. You need a lot of chicken to get your intake per day so you should probably use protein shakes aswell as your meals to get you're daily optimal protein.


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    (Original post by I am Kira)
    I've started going gym 4 weeks ago
    Not looking to be massive or anything, just build muscle and strength
    I eat 3 meals a day, 2 in which I eat alot of protein like chicken breast
    Do i need a protein shake?
    No there's a limit to the amount of amino acids your body can actually absorb which means protein shakes are basically useless unless your diet is very low protein.But yours isn't so protein shakes would end up being urinated down the toilet and be a waste of money.
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    (Original post by james Thompson56)
    No there's a limit to the amount of amino acids your body can actually absorb which means protein shakes are basically useless unless your diet is very low protein.But yours isn't so protein shakes would end up being urinated down the toilet and be a waste of money.
    The thing is I don't want to be eating so much chicken, I wanna switch to mostly vegeterian diet
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    (Original post by I am Kira)
    The thing is I don't want to be eating so much chicken, I wanna switch to mostly vegeterian diet
    There's still lots of vegetarian sources of protein beans chickpeas eggs, could even use quorn.
    In my opinion protein powder is usually over priced and not as effective as you think.However if you want to use it in your diet, then it's up to you. I suppose it's useful for pre/post workout accompanied by a low protein diet
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    Don't drink them they give you man boobs. I know :'(
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    (Original post by mcneill98)
    i dont have much time, but in short yes T is highest in the 20's and declines usually after mid-20s. Highest T in adolescence is a myth. Facial hair etc. grows because T is on the rise but not at highest. If T was directly linked to facial hair or deep voice this would mean that old men would have no facial hair or deep voices. In fact I've seen studies showing young 30's have highest.

    Stop the broscience. Calories aren't as important as you say, consider the keto diet. If this was true then I could get 50% of my calories from drinking Coke and have no weight gain. Hormonal effects change depending on the nutrients, and the loss or more we eat changes our metabolism. For somebody like me who doesnt gain weight easily the extra calories from milk is great. Also Lactose is slow digesting which means it gives slow release energy and has less of a insulin spike.
    The big spike in testosterone is responsible for changing the physiology of the body. Same way a woman grows body hair, facial hair, an Adam's apple, a deep voice and a more masculine jawline if she uses large amounts of exogenous testosterone. However, less testosterone once fully developed does not equal lesser amounts of facial hair or heightening of the pitch of ones voice. You're oversimplifying things. It's not a myth, it's a largely recognised fact by every health organisation and physiologists the world over. This sort of thing is literally why males have testosterone.

    Oh, so you were talking about how whole food is somehow better than a shake and how we must east certain foods to boost our testosterone for gains, and now you're going to tell me to stop the broscience :rofl:
    The thing is, it's not even broscience - it's actual basic physiology. Your example was a bad one as it's not quite ideal to be getting half your calories from carbohyrdrates on a maintenance or fat loss diet - I did say that macronutrient balance does play a part. However, you could get a large chunk of your carbohydrates from cola on a fat loss diet and still lose weight if your caloric intake is in check. It's a carbohydrate - carbohydrates are converted to glucose to use for the body's various needs. All carbs cause insulin spikes, whether it's sugar or oats. Sure, higher GI carbs will raise insulin quicker, but it'll then drop quicker too. So, bigger picture considered, 40g of carbs whether it's from sugar or complex carbs will produce the same effect in terms of function. The magnitude of the insulin spike is the same, sure the insulin doesn't spike as high but it's a more gradual spike and lowering with a lower GI carb, meaning longer spent in a state of heightened insulin. Only downside would be that sugar isn't as satiating.

    Again, I did point out that the balance of macronutrients does play a part. However, calories are the main thing that will determine what happens in terms of fat loss or gain. You're not going to lose fat on a keto diet if you're eating at maintenance or above - it will simply aid in fat loss during a deficit by keeping glycogen stores depleted and using ketones.
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    (Original post by Sacred Ground)
    I usually have a shake when I wake up if I'm in a rush (therefore don't have time to make anything) and after a workout, but I wouldn't recommend taking them as a protein alternative - they should supplement a balanced diet
    Though that's literally what they are. I'd never recommend getting ALL of your protein from whey protein based on adequate healthy nutrition, but the notion that you should only get a little bit of it and that getting half of your protein from whey isn't going to work is pretty baseless.
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    (Original post by WoodyMKC)
    The big spike in testosterone is responsible for changing the physiology of the body. Same way a woman grows body hair, facial hair, an Adam's apple, a deep voice and a more masculine jawline if she uses large amounts of exogenous testosterone. However, less testosterone once fully developed does not equal lesser amounts of facial hair or heightening of the pitch of ones voice. You're oversimplifying things. It's not a myth, it's a largely recognised fact by every health organisation and physiologists the world over. This sort of thing is literally why males have testosterone.

    Oh, so you were talking about how whole food is somehow better than a shake and how we must east certain foods to boost our testosterone for gains, and now you're going to tell me to stop the broscience :rofl:
    The thing is, it's not even broscience - it's actual basic physiology. Your example was a bad one as it's not quite ideal to be getting half your calories from carbohyrdrates on a maintenance or fat loss diet - I did say that macronutrient balance does play a part. However, you could get a large chunk of your carbohydrates from cola on a fat loss diet and still lose weight if your caloric intake is in check. It's a carbohydrate - carbohydrates are converted to glucose to use for the body's various needs. All carbs cause insulin spikes, whether it's sugar or oats. Sure, higher GI carbs will raise insulin quicker, but it'll then drop quicker too. So, bigger picture considered, 40g of carbs whether it's from sugar or complex carbs will produce the same effect in terms of function. The magnitude of the insulin spike is the same, sure the insulin doesn't spike as high but it's a more gradual spike and lowering with a lower GI carb, meaning longer spent in a state of heightened insulin. Only downside would be that sugar isn't as satiating.

    Again, I did point out that the balance of macronutrients does play a part. However, calories are the main thing that will determine what happens in terms of fat loss or gain. You're not going to lose fat on a keto diet if you're eating at maintenance or above - it will simply aid in fat loss during a deficit by keeping glycogen stores depleted and using ketones.
    T increases as a teen, I said that already thanks for saying it once again. http://www.webmd.com/men/testosterone-15738#1
    " Testosterone is highest around age 40, then gradually becomes less in older men" Are you ignorant of what happens the body after puberty ? A man is said to be in his prime in his twenties because that's when he is usually strongest, fittest and altogether healthiest partially due to high T.

    You go ahead and cut saturated fats, zinc, magnesium etc. from your diet and tell me how it goes. If you can find the energy to write that is. It's recommended that 40% of calories come from carbs. You argue that highly processed corn syrup in coke is the same as lactose, go get 40% of your calories from coke and tell me how we feel.
    Insulin does not kick in storing fat until it reaches a threshold which most complex carbs and lactose won't reach. This is why keto only allows low GI foods.
    I recently did a keto diet eating as much as I possibly wanted just from protein and fat, 0 carbs. I was probably having at least a few hundred calories over maintenance. 3 weeks in, I lost 7lbs, about 4 of which was water weight. Explain that. The body uses energy digesting proteins and fats, protein has 4 calories per g the same as carbs and yet doesn't cause hormone responses that store fat and uses energy by simply digesting.
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    (Original post by retro_turtles)
    Unless you want moist sticky and stinky farts like the other guy then go ahead
    Only on the cheap stuff..

    I take Matrix anabolic
    as well as
    optimum nutrition gold standard

    I use gold standard for heavier workouts e.g check and back or leg day.

    Protein shakes are good if you really can't be asked to have anything else.
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    (Original post by WoodyMKC)
    Though that's literally what they are. I'd never recommend getting ALL of your protein from whey protein based on adequate healthy nutrition, but the notion that you should only get a little bit of it and that getting half of your protein from whey isn't going to work is pretty baseless.
    I didn't say that mate
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    (Original post by I am Kira)
    I don't want to eat sop much meat and food in general tbh
    protein shakes will suit my needs more
    Wouldn't recommend it, but of course it is all up to you
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    (Original post by mcneill98)
    T increases as a teen, I said that already thanks for saying it once again. http://www.webmd.com/men/testosterone-15738#1
    " Testosterone is highest around age 40, then gradually becomes less in older men" Are you ignorant of what happens the body after puberty ? A man is said to be in his prime in his twenties because that's when he is usually strongest, fittest and altogether healthiest partially due to high T.

    You go ahead and cut saturated fats, zinc, magnesium etc. from your diet and tell me how it goes. If you can find the energy to write that is. It's recommended that 40% of calories come from carbs. You argue that highly processed corn syrup in coke is the same as lactose, go get 40% of your calories from coke and tell me how we feel.
    Insulin does not kick in storing fat until it reaches a threshold which most complex carbs and lactose won't reach. This is why keto only allows low GI foods.
    I recently did a keto diet eating as much as I possibly wanted just from protein and fat, 0 carbs. I was probably having at least a few hundred calories over maintenance. 3 weeks in, I lost 7lbs, about 4 of which was water weight. Explain that. The body uses energy digesting proteins and fats, protein has 4 calories per g the same as carbs and yet doesn't cause hormone responses that store fat and uses energy by simply digesting.
    Anecdotal evidence doesn't count.

    You can't have been eating above maintenance and lost weight.

    You could have lost fat and gained muscle if using some special technology (of the illegal variety) but your 'weight' would still be higher than when you started.

    Calories are the most important thing followed by the breakdown of the macros.

    Woody is not saying you'd feel great if you drank loads of coke and that formed a large part of your daily intake of calories. Just that, if you are still in a deficit after the coke, you will lose weight.


    A mediocre source picked for the test example.

    Why do boys at 14-20 have the worst acne but in your 20s it (very slowly) improves?

    Sure, rate of increase in test is highest in early teens so the more sensitive your skin is to insulin changes (that's correlated to sensitivity to excessive oil production of your sebrum glands so same thing) then the more acne you'd get.

    However, test settles down in your 20s.

    Declining by about 1% per year after 30 from what i've read.

    Most natural athletes are best 28-32. Why natural bodybuilders just get bigger and bigger until 40? If your source was correct then they would do.

    Highest test at 40... Wow, gonna be huge by then.

    Unfortunately, that isn't the case. By mid-thirties there will be a noticable decline which will slow down gains (if you haven't already hit your genetic potential)
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    Well when I startrd gym, drinking protein shakes was inevitable. It worked not because it had protein (my diet was sufficient in protein), but due to the density of calories in my shake (banana, honey, whole milk). I dont know your goals but i'm much wiser now and don't take them. Protein is just protein, maintaining a +ve N balance is the reason you are able to build muscle - although protein is ofcourse a nitrogen organic compound and there's positive correlation to protein intake and +ve N balance, the matter is you shouldn't obsess over protein if you're eating in sufficient manner.
 
 
 
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