Five men arrested by West Midlands anti-terror police

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Alevelstress isn't a troll. It's silly to assume someone is a troll based upon them disagreeing with you.

I think Alevelstress is -probably- wrong, given that this is Birmingham we're talking about. Not a lot of Northern Ireland Orangemen striking out at the Brummies and their fantastic Brumbums.

In fact, Birmingham bums are a national treasure and we are all in mourning that some villain attempted to wound this historically vital part of the English tradition.

It's more because he uses ridiculous arguments.

Reply 21

sdotd

Well it's Birmingham again. Gives my city a bad name these people do but it's so normal now, people here are no longer surprised

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 22

TercioOfParma

Original post by otah007

If it doesn't say they are Muslim, you can't say they are Muslim. Until it has been shown that they are Muslim, keep your reply boxes empty.

Firstly, murdering in the name of Islam doesn't mean it's Islamic. If I shout 'For TercioOfParma!' before killing someone, does that mean that you ordained it?

Secondly, when were millions murdered in the name of Islam?

If you looked at me though, you would find that I don't condone violence in my name. Islam does.

Reply 23

QE2

Original post by otah007

If it doesn't say they are Muslim, you can't say they are Muslim.
Until it has been shown that they are Muslim, keep your reply boxes empty.

Entirely agree. Just as you cannot say that it isn't.
However, as with all news events, people will speculate on the basis of previous events and what evidence there is. It is only natural, an to throw accusations of bigotry or racism at those who do is showing a lack of awareness.

In the '70s and '80s when there was a bomb in a British shopping centre, or a kidnapping in Italy or the murder of a Guardia Civil in San Sebastian, and people speculated that it was the IRA, or RAF, or ETA, no one was called a bigot or criticised for claiming that 2+2 might =4 - so why is that always the case now with Islamist terrorism?

Firstly, murdering in the name of Islam doesn't mean it's Islamic. If I shout 'For TercioOfParma!' before killing someone, does that mean that you ordained it?

If ToP had written a book that called for everyone to become followers of ToP, and contained passages that could easily be interpreted as calling for the death of those who refused to become followers of ToP, then if anyone used that book as justification for killing those who weren't followers (or the right sort of follower) of ToP and shouted "For ToP" while doing it, it would be clear to any rational person that ToP bears some responsibility for that killing.

It is baffling that some people are unable to understand this very simple concept.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 24

Napp

Original post by alevelstresss

Yes, I'm defending Islam and Muslims from instantaneous bigotry - when there is nothing whatsoever in this article to suggest that they are Muslims.

Oh come on they're being arrested on terror charges and they're from Birmingham. It doesn't take a genius to put 2 and 2 together and come to Islamic terrorists.

Reply 25

KimKallstrom

Original post by ThatOldGuy

People don't assume alevelstress is a troll because they disagree with him. It's silly of you to think that. They assume he's a troll because if he isn't then he's one of the biggest retards on the internet...................

Reply 26

QE2

To all those who claimed that they were Islamists...turns out you were right.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/08/two-men-arrested-in-london-on-suspicion-of-preparing-terrorist-acts

Reply 27

generallee

Original post by QE2

To all those who claimed that they were Islamists...turns out you were right.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/08/two-men-arrested-in-london-on-suspicion-of-preparing-terrorist-acts

Well I am absolutely gob smacked. Wow. You could knock me over with a feather. I never saw that coming...

Please don't tell me that the people arrested in Paris over a car packed with gas canisters were Muslim terrorists too????

Two incidents over the past few days might even suggest some sort of pattern here??

Reply 28

BaconandSauce

can't say I'm surprised

But now we'll get the 'not a true Muslim' defense

Reply 29

alevelstresss

Original post by BaconandSauce

can't say I'm surprised

But now we'll get the 'not a true Muslim' defense

its pathetic that you'd rather wage a war on political correctness than actually discuss the real problem

Reply 30

BaconandSauce

Original post by alevelstresss

its pathetic that you'd rather wage a war on political correctness than actually discuss the real problem

the real problem is Islam and those who follow it

But I'm more than happy to discuss this

Reply 31

the bear

Original post by alevelstresss

??? where does it mention their religion :laugh:

those crazy Buddhists :spank:

Reply 32

the bear

Original post by generallee

the police have gone soft on Buddhists.... they are unfairly focussing on Muslims.*

Reply 33

alevelstresss

Original post by BaconandSauce

the real problem is Islam and those who follow it

But I'm more than happy to discuss this

Its a part of the problem, but not the part worthy of the majority of the blame. You never ever see terrorist attacks committed by a heart-filled desire to help Islam, there is always a specific political motive. The Tunisian terrorism ambassador even said this on BBC Radio 4 about 2 weeks ago - terror attacks are hardly ever done for religion, but more often to achieve specific political aims. The problem is hateful Muslims whose hateful feelings are legitimised by ISIS, and not Islam.

Reply 34

BaconandSauce

Original post by alevelstresss

Its a part of the problem, but not the part worthy of the majority of the blame.

Islamic terrorism is because of Islam

It seems you don't want to actually talk about the problem

But yes It's not unusual for muslims to claim otherwise

Reply 35

Good bloke

Original post by alevelstresss

terror attacks are hardly ever done for religion, but more often to achieve specific political aims.

It's a good thing that religion and politics are never combined into a single ideology then, isn't it?

Oh! Wait, I've just seen that they were following an ideology that combines both politics and religion. It is, apparently, called Islam.

Reply 36

BaconandSauce

Original post by Good bloke

Oh! Wait, I've just seen that they were following an ideology that combines both politics and religion. It is, apparently, called Islam.

he just doesn't understand that this is the case

Reply 37

alevelstresss

Original post by BaconandSauce

Islamic terrorism is because of Islam

It seems you don't want to actually talk about the problem

But yes It's not unusual for muslims to claim otherwise

Your defence is completely hollow? "UHH ISLAM IS THE PROBLEM COS THE MEDIA CALLS IT ISLAMIC TERRORISM"

please actually discuss this, terror attacks are almost always done for political aims, by hateful people whose lives have turned south by some traumatic events - that alone is more solid than all of your arguments put together

Reply 38

Good bloke

Original post by alevelstresss

terror attacks are almost always done for political aims,

Furthermore, when those political aims are to further the spread or domination of Islam, obeying commands given by a supposed deity, they quite reasonably called are Islamist terror attacks, as in this case apparently

Reply 39

generallee

Original post by alevelstresss

You will be saying that the conquest and defeat of the Byzantine Empire, with hundreds of thousands killed, enslaved and raped had nothing to do with Islam next...

When the Ottomans turned all the churches into mosques they were pursuing a specific political motive. Nothing to do with religion at all.