Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Should I be eating excess or less calories than my requirement watch

    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SmashConcept)
    Then why would you want to lose weight?

    So he can get lean and defined and get a 6 pack aswell :facepalm:
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mr T 999)
    Wow on people on here have no idea on what they are taking about. Don't listen to them lol

    What you want is to be on a calorie deficit where you consume less calories than what you require. Combined with a good diet (high protein, low fat, low carbs) will help you loes weight and gain muscle :yep:

    I know cause I'm also on a calorie deficit and loss weight and still put on muscles. :dumbells:

    If you have any other questions let me know me know
    You realise that by eating low-carb and low-fat, your body is using more protein as fuel, meaning you're likely not eating enough protein to maximise muscle growth and therefore reducing the rate of new muscle grown.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SmashConcept)
    The fact that Garthe et al needed to carry out a study to find this out makes me not want to read that study.
    It's confirmed, for the most part, that bodybuilders or powerlifters who are looking to cut weight for a show or a meet should start their cut further out and use as small a deficit as possible in order to preserve strength and muscle mass.

    The only thing that isn't controlled for is training age, and the subjects were suspected to have made such significant gains due to the initial response to beginning resistance training. Obviously, intermediate and advanced lifters would not see such a difference, and should probably eat closer to their baseline calories.

    It's all well and good having everyone know that something is true, but without scientific research to back it up, it's still just an opinion.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    eat more
    Offline

    7
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by I am Kira)
    I'm 18, 5'11(I think) and 12 stone
    I'm going gym 5 times a week, llifting weights working on upper body and legs
    Should I be eating excess calories on top of my daily requirement or less calories
    I'm trying to lose body fat and gain muscle, not looking into bluking up just increased strength
    If you're trying to lose body fat, you should eat less calories. Clearly. You can also keep calories the same and add cardio. Or a combination of both (+cardio, slightly less calories).

    If you're a noob, it's possible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.

    As far as diets are concerned, eat around 1g of protein per pound of body weight (so around 170g/day).

    Macros won't affect your body composition if you're taking in sufficient protein and sleep/rest for your muscles to grow. It won't make any difference (in the long-run) whether you eat high fat, moderate or low fat or if you eat high carb, moderate carb or low carb.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheStudentPower)
    You realise that by eating low-carb and low-fat, your body is using more protein as fuel, meaning you're likely not eating enough protein to maximise muscle growth and therefore reducing the rate of new muscle grown.


    Not really your body will be using the fat stored in your body as fuel instead, hence you lose weight. Plus carbs have loads of calories and it increase your insulin levels. In order to break the food down and it can be stored as fat. Especially if your not doing any type of physical activity like on your rest day to burn it off.

    I've been eating low carb/fat and high protein food. It hasn't effected the rate of growth of my muscles tbh
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mr T 999)
    Not really your body will be using the fat stored in your body as fuel instead, hence you lose weight. Plus carbs have loads of calories and it increase your insulin levels. In order to break the food down and it can be stored as fat. Especially if your not doing any type of physical activity like on your rest day to burn it off.

    I've been eating low carb/fat and high protein food. It hasn't effected the rate of growth of my muscles tbh
    Carbs have four calories per gram, the exact same as protein. Fat has nine per gram.

    The function of insulin is to direct glucose into cells. While this includes fat, it also includes skeletal muscle. If your muscles lack glycogen, then you will tire more quickly because there's nothing in the muscles to oxidise as fuel. The main driver of muscle growth is volume over time, so if you're training in a glycogen-depleted state, you may not be able to hand as much volume, leading to attenuated gains.

    Insulin is also an anti-catabolic hormone. It promotes muscle growth by preventing its breakdown. If insulin is lowered, it cannot prevent muscle breakdown to the same extent. To compensate for this, you need to eat a higher level of protein. Not only will help you to retain a positive nitrogen balance (I.e. Build muscle), but it will account for the protein being used as energy by the body through the process of gluconeogenesis.

    Your body requires energy for a multitude of things. You don't need to be constantly training because you're trying to burn off fat. The basal metabolic rate is the baseline level of calories that your body needs to maintain its current size. If you consistently eat below this, the body will itilise fat stores to compensate for the missing energy.

    Unless you're getting a DEXA scan every month, you're in no position to say how quickly have been growing in relation to your diet. The effect of newbie gains may also come into play, depending on how long you've been lifting.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mr T 999)
    So he can get lean and defined and get a 6 pack aswell :facepalm:
    You realise that's possible without starving yourself?

    (Original post by TheStudentPower)
    It's confirmed, for the most part, that bodybuilders or powerlifters who are looking to cut weight for a show or a meet should start their cut further out and use as small a deficit as possible in order to preserve strength and muscle mass.

    The only thing that isn't controlled for is training age, and the subjects were suspected to have made such significant gains due to the initial response to beginning resistance training. Obviously, intermediate and advanced lifters would not see such a difference, and should probably eat closer to their baseline calories.

    It's all well and good having everyone know that something is true, but without scientific research to back it up, it's still just an opinion.
    It's kind of not though is it. We do lots of things in our everyday lives that don't have scientific research backing it up because they're just obvious.
    Offline

    6
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sisuphos)
    If you're trying to lose body fat, you should eat less calories. Clearly. You can also keep calories the same and add cardio. Or a combination of both (+cardio, slightly less calories).

    If you're a noob, it's possible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.

    As far as diets are concerned, eat around 1g of protein per pound of body weight (so around 170g/day).

    Macros won't affect your body composition if you're taking in sufficient protein and sleep/rest for your muscles to grow. It won't make any difference (in the long-run) whether you eat high fat, moderate or low fat or if you eat high carb, moderate carb or low carb.
    That is significantly more protein than you need. By your standards that would be 13 eggs per day which is overkill.

    Aim for about 0.7g/kg of body weight. Anything more will just get excreted and or screw your liver.

    P.s stay away from supplements you don't need em
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ExamLeak)
    That is significantly more protein than you need. By your standards that would be 13 eggs per day which is overkill.

    Aim for about 0.7g/kg of body weight. Anything more will just get excreted and or screw your liver.

    P.s stay away from supplements you don't need em
    I take only one protein shake after my workout
    I'm eating pescitarian, so most of my protein comes from quorn and fish
    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheStudentPower)
    Carbs have four calories per gram, the exact same as protein. Fat has nine per gram.

    The function of insulin is to direct glucose into cells. While this includes fat, it also includes skeletal muscle. If your muscles lack glycogen, then you will tire more quickly because there's nothing in the muscles to oxidise as fuel. The main driver of muscle growth is volume over time, so if you're training in a glycogen-depleted state, you may not be able to hand as much volume, leading to attenuated gains.

    Insulin is also an anti-catabolic hormone. It promotes muscle growth by preventing its breakdown. If insulin is lowered, it cannot prevent muscle breakdown to the same extent. To compensate for this, you need to eat a higher level of protein. Not only will help you to retain a positive nitrogen balance (I.e. Build muscle), but it will account for the protein being used as energy by the body through the process of gluconeogenesis.

    Your body requires energy for a multitude of things. You don't need to be constantly training because you're trying to burn off fat. The basal metabolic rate is the baseline level of calories that your body needs to maintain its current size. If you consistently eat below this, the body will itilise fat stores to compensate for the missing energy.

    Unless you're getting a DEXA scan every month, you're in no position to say how quickly have been growing in relation to your diet. The effect of newbie gains may also come into play, depending on how long you've been lifting.
    That's the whole point to get your body to use your fat stored in your body as energy. Plus the human body doesn't really need carbs. Heard of a paelo diet? Our ancient ancestors before they discovered farming and wheat etc.... eat meat,veg,fruits, nuts and dairy food. They hardly had any carbs in there diet and research shows they would have been lean and cut.

    If you wanna cut down and get lean and defined then you eat lower carbs. If you wanna put on mass and size then consume more carbs.

    (Original post by SmashConcept)
    You realise that's possible without starving yourself?
    Who said you'll be starving yourself lol. If you wanna lose weight you consume less calories, if you want mass than consume more simple.

    (Original post by ExamLeak)
    That is significantly more protein than you need. By your standards that would be 13 eggs per day which is overkill.

    Aim for about 0.7g/kg of body weight. Anything more will just get excreted and or screw your liver.

    P.s stay away from supplements you don't need em


    That's not overkill and it won't screw your liver lol

    As a rule of thumb you consume 1g of protein per pound you weigh. So if you weigh 170 lbs than consume 170g or more protein. It also depends on your goals aswell.

    Supplements can be useful at times like if you just finished working out. Then it's good to have a shake so your body can absorb the protein in your body. Instead of waiting until you get home.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mr T 999)
    That's the whole point to get your body to use your fat stored in your body as energy. Plus the human body doesn't really need carbs. Heard of a paelo diet? Our ancient ancestors before they discovered farming and wheat etc.... eat meat,veg,fruits, nuts and dairy food. They hardly had any carbs in there diet and research shows they would have been lean and cut.

    If you wanna cut down and get lean and defined then you eat lower carbs. If you wanna put on mass and size then consume more carbs.
    Veg has carbs, fruit has carbs, dairy has carbs. Yeah, definitely making the case against eating carbs there. I've also heard our ancestors didn't use antibiotics, maybe you should try that as well?

    Does the body need carbohydrates? Not exactly. It does, however, need glucose. Gluconeogenesis is used to convert fat and protein into glucose, but it's an inefficient process, and as you eat fewer carbs, more protein is consumed by the body as energy, hence why protein intake needs to be so much higher in ketosis. If you undereat on protein, your body will start to consume your muscles as energy.

    But note what I said - it converts protein and fat into glucose. What makes up glucose? Carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. You break down carbohydrate and you get carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. Ingesting carbohydrate is the most efficient process for the body to gain glucose. Glucose is oxidised by cells to provide energy. If you provide cells with glucose in the form of carbohydrates, you have a higher level of insulin in your bloodstream, and therefore a promotion of muscle growth due to the anti-catabolic nature of insulin, and the amount of protein used for energy also drops.

    If you eat virtually no carbs when you diet (I.e. You go on a ketogenic diet), then you will shed a lot of water weight. This does make you look defined and vascular, but it also pulls water out of the muscle. This makes it look small and flat, and in bodybuilding shows, this would be detrimental to the competitor and they'd be marked down for it.

    It's not really true that you just eat more carbs to grow. If you eat more than your body needs, it will store the excess as fat. Whether or not this comes from carbs, fat, or protein is irrelevant.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SmashConcept)
    It's kind of not though is it. We do lots of things in our everyday lives that don't have scientific research backing it up because they're just obvious.
    Training isn't an everyday process though. You are actively causing trauma to your body to force it to grow and adapt. You do that with a razor blade, it's considered self-harm. It's not a normal thing.

    Now, the aim of losing fat is usually tracked by tracking weight loss. However, in Garthe's study, both groups lost the exactly same amount of weight. How is a physique or powerlifting competitor supposed to know how much of that is muscle and fat without a DEXA scan?

    Say you do this in court. You say "Ah, but everyone knows this guy killed X, it's obvious to everybody!" And then I come up and say "Well actually, there's evidence that it's not the case, and here it is." Who is the judge going to favour?

    Science is ever-evolving. Much of the "bro-science" today was the supported science of yesterday. Take post-training supplementation, the "anabolic window". Up until Brad Schoenfeld, Alan Aragon, and James Krieger reviewed all the data on the subject, people thought that the anabolic window was a real thing. And it would make sense - you've just finished training, it's obvious that you need to supply them with protein at that very instant. But the research shows you don't.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheStudentPower)
    Veg has carbs, fruit has carbs, dairy has carbs. Yeah, definitely making the case against eating carbs there. I've also heard our ancestors didn't use antibiotics, maybe you should try that as well?

    Does the body need carbohydrates? Not exactly. It does, however, need glucose. Gluconeogenesis is used to convert fat and protein into glucose, but it's an inefficient process, and as you eat fewer carbs, more protein is consumed by the body as energy, hence why protein intake needs to be so much higher in ketosis. If you undereat on protein, your body will start to consume your muscles as energy.

    But note what I said - it converts protein and fat into glucose. What makes up glucose? Carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. You break down carbohydrate and you get carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. Ingesting carbohydrate is the most efficient process for the body to gain glucose. Glucose is oxidised by cells to provide energy. If you provide cells with glucose in the form of carbohydrates, you have a higher level of insulin in your bloodstream, and therefore a promotion of muscle growth due to the anti-catabolic nature of insulin, and the amount of protein used for energy also drops.

    If you eat virtually no carbs when you diet (I.e. You go on a ketogenic diet), then you will shed a lot of water weight. This does make you look defined and vascular, but it also pulls water out of the muscle. This makes it look small and flat, and in bodybuilding shows, this would be detrimental to the competitor and they'd be marked down for it.

    It's not really true that you just eat more carbs to grow. If you eat more than your body needs, it will store the excess as fat. Whether or not this comes from carbs, fat, or protein is irrelevant.


    I'm not saying to stop eating carbs I'm just saying eat lower amounts and your body will still be able to to put on muscles ffs :facepalm: athletes, celebs, personal trainers and loads of other people . Follow the diet to get lean and cut. I'm achieving results so don't see what the problem is.

    Do you work out in the gym? You better not be some be science kid who Is applying what he learnt in school and has no actual experience in dieting/lifting weights. :hmmm:
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ExamLeak)
    That is significantly more protein than you need. By your standards that would be 13 eggs per day which is overkill.

    Aim for about 0.7g/kg of body weight. Anything more will just get excreted and or screw your liver.

    P.s stay away from supplements you don't need em
    0.7g/kg is around the same level as the RDA. Studies since the 90s have found that resistance training requires more than double this. Additionally, there is no evidence that high levels of protein will damage the liver.

    As for supplements, it depends what you mean by "need". Whey protein is generally quite useful as a fallback if you can't reach your protein for the day, or if you don't have the time. Multivitamins are usually a good investment too, as is creatine. Most other supplements are unnecessary though.
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    PS Reviewer
    The amount of protein you need is between 0.5-1.5g/kg. Anymore is ridiculous
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Angry cucumber)
    The amount of protein you need is between 0.5-1.5g/kg. Anymore is ridiculous
    For reasons such as..?

    Highly respected researchers such as Lyle McDonald, Eric Helms, and Alan Aragon have all supported higher levels of protein, particularly in the caloric deficits.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Angry cucumber)
    The amount of protein you need is between 0.5-1.5g/kg. Anymore is ridiculous

    :facepalm: The amount of protein needed is dependent on the person tbh and their goals. Some require more some require less. In fact eating loads of protein Is a good way of losing weight. Since protein takes alot longer for the body to breakdown compared with other foods. This keeps you fuller for longer and your less likely to over eat and put on weight. :yes:
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mr T 999)
    I'm not saying to stop eating carbs I'm just saying eat lower amounts and your body will still be able to to put on muscles ffs :facepalm: athletes, celebs, personal trainers and loads of other people . Follow the diet to get lean and cut. I'm achieving results so don't see what the problem is.

    Do you work out in the gym? You better not be some be science kid who Is applying what he learnt in school and has no actual experience in dieting/lifting weights. :hmmm:

    Of course your body will be able to put on muscle without carbs, they're completely unrelated to muscle-protein synthesis. In a hypercaloric state, muscle gain is accelerated due to higher levels of insulin and less uptake of protein for energy.

    The problem is that it's not the optimal approach to take. You might be making gains, but they're likely attenuated due to higher protein uptake for energy in a hypocaloric state. Your protein is being used for energy because you lack other sources. If you go on a low-carb diet, you need to increase fat to compensate.

    I currently hold seven Scottish powerlifting records, and I've represented Scotland at the BDFPA Four Nations Championships. I don't see why that makes a difference though, science is applicable regardless of who says it or how much they lift.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheStudentPower2)
    Of course your body will be able to put on muscle without carbs, they're completely unrelated to muscle-protein synthesis. In a hypercaloric state, muscle gain is accelerated due to higher levels of insulin and less uptake of protein for energy.

    The problem is that it's not the optimal approach to take. You might be making gains, but they're likely attenuated due to higher protein uptake for energy in a hypocaloric state. Your protein is being used for energy because you lack other sources. If you go on a low-carb diet, you need to increase fat to compensate.

    I currently hold seven Scottish powerlifting records, and I've represented Scotland at the BDFPA Four Nations Championships. I don't see why that makes a difference though, science is applicable regardless of who says it or how much they lift.
    The Student power 2?? :hmmmm2: Did you get banned or something lol :teehee:

    Why would your protein in your body be used first? What about fat stored in your body won't that be used instead to give your body energy.

    Your a powerlifeter I'm not our goals and dietary requirements are different. You obviously want mass and size and I'm just looking to get lean and cut.
 
 
 
Poll
Do you agree with the PM's proposal to cut tuition fees for some courses?

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.