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Help! I think I am going crazy or the world is crazy. Watch

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    (Original post by loooopppyyy)
    Wait so you crucify us for asking about certain variables, then after this add in your own??

    They were being intentionally obtuse like you are intentionally focusing on me .
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    (Original post by AlbertXY)
    You are already aware of my argument? It is about the speed of light and a very interesting fact or two .

    So lets cut to the chase,

    You stand on the Sun ( yes I know you can't really stand on the Sun).


    I stand on Earth


    We look at each other


    Like the bullets from a gun, the Photons travel from me to you

    and the photons travel from you to me


    we see each other the exact same time?
    We see each other as they were approximately 8 minutes and 20 seconds before the photons interact with our retinas.
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    (Original post by Kyx)
    We see each other as they were approximately 8 minutes and 20 seconds before the photons interact with our retinas.

    Clearly you have already forgot your yes answer to the bullets.

    Think again, I said we see each other at the same time, I did not mention seeing each other as we were 8 minutes and 20 seconds ago.
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    (Original post by AlbertXY)
    Clearly you have already forgot your yes answer to the bullets.

    Think again, I said we see each other at the same time, I did not mention seeing each other as we were 8 minutes and 20 seconds ago.
    Let's assume that the photons interact with each other's retinas at the same time relative to a person standing at a point equidistant from both of us. Now what?
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    (Original post by Kyx)
    Let's assume that the photons interact with each other's retinas at the same time relative to a person standing at a point equidistant from both of us. Now what?
    Well the vector maths shows us that they do interact with our retinas at the same time.
    The distance from A to B and the distance from B to A is always equal and of course the speed of light is constant travelling through a vacuum.

    Ok, moving on and you may not see the relevance straight away in this next part.


    I am on Earth in my time frame, my now, the present, the moment of time occurring now, do you agree that you on the Sun are also in your now time frame, the present?
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    (Original post by AlbertXY)
    Well the vector maths shows us that they do interact with our retinas at the same time.
    The distance from A to B and the distance from B to A is always equal and of course the speed of light is constant travelling through a vacuum.

    Ok, moving on and you may not see the relevance straight away in this next part.


    I am on Earth in my time frame, my now, the present, the moment of time occurring now, do you agree that you on the Sun are also in your now time frame, the present?
    I would agree that I would be experiencing what I could only perceive as my 'now' or 'present time frame', since it is the only one it is possible for me to perceive.
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    (Original post by Kyx)
    I would agree that I would be experiencing what I could only perceive as my 'now' or 'present time frame', since it is the only one it is possible for me to perceive.

    I have got to admit , you are far easier to talk to than most of the scientists I have come across.


    Ok, So you are in your present and I am in my present but according to present information we are both seeing each other as we were 8 minutes and 20 seconds ago.


    But we now have concluded we still see each other at the same time.


    Below is part of a piece I wrote , would you say this was accurate thus far?

    ''The amount of time it takes light to travel a distance of free space is constant because the speed of light denoted c measured in a vacuum is constant in speed at 299 792 458 m / s. From the Sun to Earth a Photon's journey, the Photon on average takes about eight minutes and twenty seconds to reach the Earth and enter your eyes, in which this a part of the sight process , thus allowing us to see by the Photon's entering our eyes.Photon's emitted from the surface of the Sun need to travel across the vacuum of space to reach our eyes that allows us to see the Sun , we see objects similarly by the Photons reflecting off objects that travel across free space that enter our eyes. We retain an image of the object in our minds as long as we retain a clear line of sight.Thus ''brings'' to my attention the thought and postulate of considering the events in which the present information is seemingly at error . The present information suggesting we see objects as they were in their past. In short and simple terms it is presently suggested that when you observe the Sun at 9 a.m relative to you, you are actually seeing the Sun , an image in your brain, that is eight minutes and twenty seconds old and that you are seeing the Sun as it were at 8:51:40 am . Effectively when you observe any object you are observing into the past.''
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    And in our discussion thus far, do you thoroughly understand this part

    ''However, there is an incompleteness about this and in consideration of ALL of the events and completeness, there is seemingly a contradiction, thus leading me to the discussion of the humble but yet so informative ''tube''. Let us look through the tube, a ''Quanta tunnel'', I at one end of the tube and you at the other end of the tube, we will label my end of the tube (A) and we shall label your end of the tube (B), we shall also define the rest length of the tube, defining the rest length of the tube is 299792458 m and define this as one light second of light travel between I and you in either direction the light travels.Now let us consider the present information and how the present information conform's in accordance with the tube. From (A) to (B), a Photon takes one second to travel the distance. From (B) to (A) the Photon takes one second to travel the distance.''If'' we were both to release, emit or reflect a Photon at the exact same time, both opposite points would receive the Photons at the exact same time because of the constant speed of the light. In simple terms if we emitted a Photon each, at exactly 9:00:00 am on synchronised clocks, the individual Photons would reach us at exactly 9:00:01 am, simultaneous on both clocks. In relationship to sight , Photons enter our eyes at 9:00:01 am, but according to present information we observe each other as we were at 9:00:00 am.However, in this scenario we both started at precisely 9:00:00 am , we both experienced one second of time pass by as the light travelled the distance from both points. I, you and the Photon's, all experience the passing of time of a one second duration, while the scenario event takes place.''It is important you understand this before I move on.
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    (Original post by AlbertXY)
    And in our discussion thus far, do you thoroughly understand this part

    ''However, there is an incompleteness about this and in consideration of ALL of the events and completeness, there is seemingly a contradiction, thus leading me to the discussion of the humble but yet so informative ''tube''. Let us look through the tube, a ''Quanta tunnel'', I at one end of the tube and you at the other end of the tube, we will label my end of the tube (A) and we shall label your end of the tube (B), we shall also define the rest length of the tube, defining the rest length of the tube is 299792458 m and define this as one light second of light travel between I and you in either direction the light travels.Now let us consider the present information and how the present information conform's in accordance with the tube. From (A) to (B), a Photon takes one second to travel the distance. From (B) to (A) the Photon takes one second to travel the distance.''If'' we were both to release, emit or reflect a Photon at the exact same time, both opposite points would receive the Photons at the exact same time because of the constant speed of the light. In simple terms if we emitted a Photon each, at exactly 9:00:00 am on synchronised clocks, the individual Photons would reach us at exactly 9:00:01 am, simultaneous on both clocks. In relationship to sight , Photons enter our eyes at 9:00:01 am, but according to present information we observe each other as we were at 9:00:00 am.However, in this scenario we both started at precisely 9:00:00 am , we both experienced one second of time pass by as the light travelled the distance from both points. I, you and the Photon's, all experience the passing of time of a one second duration, while the scenario event takes place.''It is important you understand this before I move on.
    Yes, that is 100% accurate.
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    (Original post by Kyx)
    Yes, that is 100% accurate.
    So it is clear to you that I understand what I am talking about?

    I am close on another forum to somebody getting it, I 'see' a problem and it involves 0 distance.


    Ok, you are on the Sun and I am on Earth, you are going to travel from your present to me, do you arrive in my present?
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    (Original post by AlbertXY)
    So it is clear to you that I understand what I am talking about?

    I am close on another forum to somebody getting it, I 'see' a problem and it involves 0 distance.


    Ok, you are on the Sun and I am on Earth, you are going to travel from your present to me, do you arrive in my present?
    When I perceive that I arrive at Earth, you will perceive it at a later time, so you could say that my 'present' would be your 'future' if you want.
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    (Original post by Kyx)
    When I perceive that I arrive at Earth, you will perceive it at a later time, so you could say that my 'present' would be your 'future' if you want.
    No, my future is also your future , while my present clock ticks , your present clock also ticks, if our clocks are synchronous and both say 9:00:00 am, both clocks will show the same time when you arrive. Time passes for us both.

    Your present effectively comes to my present from the past. (according to present information).



    Anyway, you are now in my time frame, we are standing nose to nose and the time it takes light to travel the very small distance between our eyes is negligible.


    Do you agree we are seeing each other at the same time in the same present, time occurring now?

    Our clocks being synchronous show the same time?
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    (Original post by AlbertXY)
    Our clocks being synchronous show the same time?
    No, this is where it is wrong. They may have been synchronous to start with, but I had to travel from the sun to get to Earth. Both special and general relativity would play a part, and by this time our clocks would no longer be in sync.
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    (Original post by Kyx)
    No, this is where it is wrong. They may have been synchronous to start with, but I had to travel from the sun to get to Earth. Both special and general relativity would play a part, and by this time our clocks would no longer be in sync.
    Ignore relativistic effects for now, when you are in my time frame our clocks are synchronous,

    The small effects of time dilation do not come into this when we are discussing 8 minutes .

    Do you agree if we are holding hands , we are in the same time frame and the present together and seeing each other at the same time?
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    (Original post by AlbertXY)
    Ignore relativistic effects for now, when you are in my time frame our clocks are synchronous,

    The small effects of time dilation do not come into this when we are discussing 8 minutes .
    The time dilation would have a measurable effect, but if we ignore these effects, then the clocks would remain synchronous relative to a person standing at a point equidistant from both of us. If the observer stayed in the same position as before, he would see the person who is standing closer to him to have the 'faster' clock.
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    (Original post by Kyx)
    The time dilation would have a measurable effect, but if we ignore these effects, then the clocks would remain synchronous relative to a person standing at a point equidistant from both of us. If the observer stayed in the same position as before, he would see the person who is standing closer to him to have the 'faster' clock.
    We are nose to nose, I think it is pretty safe to say we are both in the same present and we see each other at the same time ?

    It is important to understand this before I then expand you outwards.
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    (Original post by AlbertXY)

    Do you agree if we are holding hands , we are in the same time frame and the present together and seeing each other at the same time?
    Let's assume this, then relativistic effects would have played a part, but ignoring those, we are in the same 'present time frame' (although it would still take about half a second to register the image/pressure of the holding hands, but let's ignore this too if you want)
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    (Original post by Kyx)
    Let's assume this, then relativistic effects would have played a part, but ignoring those, we are in the same 'present time frame' (although it would still take about half a second to register the image/pressure of the holding hands, but let's ignore this too if you want)
    So if you expand away from me, time and the motion are simultaneous, then at any distance we are always in each others present, While you travel away I experience the same amount of time pass as you do, so when you get to lets say 8 light minutes away, we remain in each others present. I am not seeing you in your past, I am seeing you in my present and likewise you see me in my present.

    I will do a primitive diagram

    We both start at 0

    A0B


    You expand from me, but relatively neither observer can tell who is moving


    A0............B


    Ok let us say that r=1 light minute.


    A0 time shows 1 light minute

    B time shows 1 light minute

    Both A and B are in the present frame of time.
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    Depends which points of you both the stones hit vs. how long your reach is, absent any interfering space-time differentials :teeth:
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    (Original post by AlbertXY)
    So if you expand away from me, time and the motion are simultaneous, then at any distance we are always in each others present, While you travel away I experience the same amount of time pass as you do, so when you get to lets say 8 light minutes away, we remain in each others present. I am not seeing you in your past, I am seeing you in my present and likewise you see me in my present.

    I will do a primitive diagram

    We both start at 0

    A0B


    You expand from me, but relatively neither observer can tell who is moving


    A0............B


    Ok let us say that r=1 light minute.


    A0 time shows 1 light minute

    B time shows 1 light minute

    Both A and B are in the present frame of time.
    It is correct that neither of us can know which one of us is moving. All motion is relative.
 
 
 
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