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A human trying to understand the universe is like an ant trying to understand how the watch

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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    Its not really the same is it? An ant doesnt have the level of conciousness a human does.And just because we may never know doesnt mean we shouldnt try find out.Its ok not to know.We should just enjoy it for what it is.
    Depends on what way you look at it. An ant does have a conciousness to an extent but not to the degree to understand how the world works. Likewise I think humans don't have a high enough level of conciousness to understand how the whole universe works. It just goes way beyond our understanding. Do you not think this is a possibility at least?
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    (Original post by rations)
    Depends on what way you look at it. An ant does have a conciousness to an extent but not to the degree to understand how the world works. Likewise I think humans don't have a high enough level of conciousness to understand how the whole universe works. It just goes way beyond our understanding. Do you not think this is a possibility at least?
    Yes its definitely a possibilty.However humans are not really that old as a species.We've had civilisation for only about 10000 years and proper science for a few hundred.Its a bit early to give up on understanding the universe.Of course its possible that the universe is simply too large to ever understand fully.It might just go on forever and ever.It might be a multiverse. But still pretty fascinating to learn about though.
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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    Yes its definitely a possibilty. However humans are not really that old as a species. We've had civilisation for only about 10000 years and proper science for a few hundred.Its a bit early to give up on understanding the universe.Of course its possible that the universe is simply too large to ever understand fully.It might just go on forever and ever.It might be a multiverse. But still pretty fascinating to learn about though.
    True.

    I am not telling humans to give up on trying to find the answers. I just think that humans may never fully know how the universe works as it goes completely beyond our understanding- no matter how much we're try.

    I don't think many people like to admit that is possible because it sounds depression.
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    Also if humans can't find answers they tend to make answers up for e.g. religion.
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    (Original post by rations)
    A human trying to understand how the universe works is just like an ant trying to understand how the universe works.
    Speak for yourself, big lad.


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    (Original post by rations)
    Humans have only been around for 200,000 years. I don't think humans will be around in 1 million years. They'll be all gone.
    Provided we don't kill each other, I don't see why we can't be here in 1 million years.
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    Not sure what the OP's point is or why this thread even exists. Makes no sense.

    The analogy isn't the same, humans understand far more than an ant.
    Surely even 10,000 years ago there's evidence that we already can understand more about the universe than anything else in the world. Farming, irrigation for example show that we can understand the universe to a degree.

    What you mean is to a 100% all knowing, all understanding degree.
    No it'll never happen.

    You have a paradox there- once you know completely how the universe works- on all scales (Quantum and Macro) and in all forms of energy (both matter and Energy) and then have managed to understand the other parts of the universe we don't at the moment- Dark matter, dark energy, "nothingness", consciousness - the next goal would be to replicate it and to find a purpose.
    There in lies your problem in trying to replicate it, you cannot and therefore you won't ever be able to fully understand it.
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    It won't be long until computers can self-develop and evole themselves beyond us. So even if our minds aren't complex enough, theirs will be.
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    (Original post by JoeyTr)
    It won't be long until computers can self-develop and evole themselves beyond us. So even if our minds aren't complex enough, theirs will be.
    No not in the near future.

    A computer doesn't process information as well as our brains can.
    A brain has a bigger processing power than a computer
    but a computer can store much more memory.

    There's something fundamental to how our brains wire and work to process things that we haven't be able to replicate with simple maths in a computer.
    Doesn't stop us trying though.
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    (Original post by HelpusPleasus)
    No not in the near future.

    A computer doesn't process information as well as our brains can.
    A brain has a bigger processing power than a computer
    but a computer can store much more memory.

    There's something fundamental to how our brains wire and work to process things that we haven't be able to replicate with simple maths in a computer.
    Doesn't stop us trying though.
    Exactly right, always difficult to put an estimate on these time frames, could be anywhere from 50-500 years maybe?

    True, our brains are wired very differently. Then again, ones and zeros on a processor isn't that fundamentally different from neuron cells firing and remaining static, so we should be able to be replicated and improved upon it in the future! Fascinating times!
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    (Original post by cbreef)
    Provided we don't kill each other, I don't see why we can't be here in 1 million years.
    It wouldn't surprise me if there is a world war soon. But even if there was that wouldn't be enough to completely wipe the whole human species of earth.

    But what about if a powerful asteroid comes along?
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    (Original post by HelpusPleasus)
    Not sure what the OP's point is or why this thread even exists. Makes no sense.

    The analogy isn't the same, humans understand far more than an ant.
    Surely even 10,000 years ago there's evidence that we already can understand more about the universe than anything else in the world. Farming, irrigation for example show that we can understand the universe to a degree.

    What you mean is to a 100% all knowing, all understanding degree.
    No it'll never happen.

    You have a paradox there- once you know completely how the universe works- on all scales (Quantum and Macro) and in all forms of energy (both matter and Energy) and then have managed to understand the other parts of the universe we don't at the moment- Dark matter, dark energy, "nothingness", consciousness - the next goal would be to replicate it and to find a purpose.
    There in lies your problem in trying to replicate it, you cannot and therefore you won't ever be able to fully understand it.
    How does it make no sense? some things are just completely beyond human understanding. You even go onto admit that humans will not ever understand everything completely.
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    (Original post by BigDDDD)
    It wouldn't surprise me if there is a world war soon. But even if there was that wouldn't be enough to completely wipe the whole human species of earth.

    But what about if a powerful asteroid comes along?
    We'll build a big ass gun Or do it armageddon style.
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    (Original post by BigDDDD)
    How does it make no sense? some things are just completely beyond human understanding. You even go onto admit that humans will not ever understand everything completely.
    The OP says:

    " I just think the universe is wayyy beyond human understanding and we will never work out the true reason that it ever began (if there was even a starting point at all). "

    I use a different argument though.

    The OP has shown odd opinions throughout and doesn't really make sense because we can understand the Universe to some extent.- Atoms, sub atomic particles, quantum particles-
    It's a flawed logic argument.
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    (Original post by rations)

    The best answer we have in terms of science is the big bang theory and the clue is in the name- its just a theory.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Ba...ional_evidence

    It isn't "just a theory"

    It's a theory in the same way the theory of gravity is "just a theory".

    It isn't pure philosophical speculation cosmologists came up with, it is based on observable evidence. You then infer from that evidence what is the best explanation. OF course you have all the problems of inference, but then so does all science.
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    (Original post by BigDDDD)
    How does it make no sense? some things are just completely beyond human understanding. You even go onto admit that humans will not ever understand everything completely.
    I'm pretty we would know if there's an asteroid coming at us. Our telescopes would see it while it's still millions of miles of away.
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    (Original post by HelpusPleasus)
    The OP says:

    " I just think the universe is wayyy beyond human understanding and we will never work out the true reason that it ever began (if there was even a starting point at all). "

    I use a different argument though.

    The OP has shown odd opinions throughout and doesn't really make sense because we can understand the Universe to some extent.- Atoms, sub atomic particles, quantum particles-
    It's a flawed logic argument.
    Its not flawed at all.He was just suggesting that the answers to the universe could be well beyond our understanding and he may well be right.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Ba...ional_evidence

    It isn't "just a theory"

    It's a theory in the same way the theory of gravity is "just a theory".

    It isn't pure philosophical speculation cosmologists came up with, it is based on observable evidence. You then infer from that evidence what is the best explanation. OF course you have all the problems of inference, but then so does all science.
    The big bang theory will be replaced by something else in the future.And people in the future will be like 'omg I cant believe people from the past were so stupid to believe that.'
    Then that something else will be replaced by something else- and so on and son and so on.
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    (Original post by cbreef)
    I'm pretty we would know if there's an asteroid coming at us. Our telescopes would see it while it's still millions of miles of away.
    What if its too big to destroy?
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    (Original post by calling03)
    The big bang theory will be replaced by something else in the future.And people in the future will be like 'omg I cant believe people from the past were so stupid to believe that.'
    Then that something else will be replaced by something else- and so on and son and so on.
    Not quite. It will be like us looking back on various scientific theories that get updated/overhauled/or completely replaced. The big bang is a sensible conclusion considering the evidence we have. It isn't the result of a collective delusion like believing the earth is the centre of the universe because the Pope says it is.

    Science is open to breakthroughs and paradigm shifts. In fact many scientists would love to be responsible for such a thing. I think most scientists would feel depressed if they new they could never discover something new. In contrast find a priest who would like to prove a fundamental aspect of his theology wrong.

    We look back on 19th century physicists who thought we had made all the big breakthroughs as being very naive. That still doesn't mean the physics they developed was wrong per say. It is still used to build bridges etc. It was just all part of the process of science. Later scientists stood on top of what they did and discovered black body radiation and other such things which lead to quantum physics and relativity. It's on ongoing process and even when we discover something new we often still use the old stuff anyway.
 
 
 
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