Eight injured after being stabbed in a Minnesota Mall

Announcements Posted on
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by IkeaLamp)
    the desire for evil clearly comes first then, and the justification of extremist parts of Islam is the mechanism by which these murderers live with their actions, the fault cannot solely be Islam, nor does it hold the majority of the blame
    I agree, and I said that at the beginning. Whether it holds the majority of the blame is impossible to say. The point it is that it is an integral factor in the motivation of the crime, and is therefore something to be concerned about.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Shintoists?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by IkeaLamp)
    the computer monitors tell them about ISIS, ISIS are the ones reaching out to angry Muslims telling them to stand up and kill innocents, the Quran isn't actively preaching people to kill civilians.

    Noble Verse 8:61 "But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace
    When these nutjobs go on their rampages it is in the name of Islam and in the name of their god. Not in the name of their commuter screens. You don't hear people shouting computerhu akbar do you...

    Don't agree with it? Good. But don't deny that's why they do it.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by L'absurde)
    The suspect was shot dead by police.

    "The suspected attacker reportedly made references to Allah before he was killed".

    "The attacker asked at least one person if they were Muslim".
    Hoepefully the guy isn't black or else BLM mobs will be rampaging and looting in the city tonight....*
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JoshDawg)
    When will people learn that Islam has nothing to do with Islam
    Nearly spat out my coffee at that.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by IkeaLamp)
    when will you learn that Islam alone doesn't motivate people to do horrible things?
    What other contributory factors would you tie to these attacks?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by IkeaLamp)
    I find it funny how these sorts of people end up being described by their neighbours/friends as "drinkers, breakdancers and not very religious at all" a lot of the time
    And then when they become pius they commit terror attacks. This doesn't help your case lol*
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    Hoepefully the guy isn't black or else BLM mobs will be rampaging and looting in the city tonight....*
    I have a feeling the perp is Somali – given that there's quite a few Somalis living in Minnesota. Just a thought.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by 1010marina)
    When these nutjobs go on their rampages it is in the name of Islam and in the name of their god. Not in the name of their commuter screens. You don't hear people shouting computerhu akbar do you...

    Don't agree with it? Good. But don't deny that's why they do it.
    That's not why they do it. They do it because they're evil people and they want to hurt as many people as they can. Islam is simply how they feel good about themselves after doing it, politicising their evil actions into a terrorist attack legitimises them as warriors of extremist Islam, rather than the brutal murderers that they are. And people like you, who accept their motive, are legitimising their actions.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    What other contributory factors would you tie to these attacks?
    anger, hatred, deprivation, etc... you don't just wake up and suddenly want to kill innocent people man
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Confirmed Jainist, wait I mean ISIS
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by IkeaLamp)
    That's not why they do it. They do it because they're evil people and they want to hurt as many people as they can. Islam is simply how they feel good about themselves after doing it, politicising their evil actions into a terrorist attack legitimises them as warriors of extremist Islam, rather than the brutal murderers that they are. And people like you, who accept their motive, are legitimising their actions.
    Nope. When was the last time we saw a pressure cooker bomb because the perp likes blood and mutilation and death? We rarely see people going around commiting mass murder because they're "evil". People generally have to have a justification in their mind for these atrocities. Hitler, Breivik, ISIS. They all think they're acting for The Greater Good. They're usually normal people who convince themselves/get convinced that what they're doing is right, or that God will reward them for it, or that it needs to be done to save everyone else, etc. Everyone has struggled or faced difficulty in their lives, but we don't all become mass murderers.

    Calling them simply evil people is what legitimises them. "They are what they are. They can't help it. We can't prevent evil people doing things." They're just people, like you or me... Fed the wrong codswallop. If they didn't find solace in the negative interpretation of their religion (eg kill all the infidels), then they wouldn't start bombing people..
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by 1010marina)
    Nope. When was the last time we saw a pressure cooker bomb because the perp likes blood and mutilation and death? We rarely see people going around commiting mass murder because they're "evil". People generally have to have a justification in their mind for these atrocities. Hitler, Breivik, ISIS. They all think they're acting for The Greater Good. They're usually normal people who convince themselves/get convinced that what they're doing is right, or that God will reward them for it, or that it needs to be done to save everyone else, etc. Everyone has struggled or faced difficulty in their lives, but we don't all become mass murderers.

    Calling them simply evil people is what legitimises them. "They are what they are. They can't help it. We can't prevent evil people doing things." They're just people, like you or me... Fed the wrong codswallop. If they didn't find solace in the negative interpretation of their religion (eg kill all the infidels), then they wouldn't start bombing people..
    The motive they say isn't necessarily their true motive. Vocalising support for ISIS, or for a greater cause, legitimises you into a terrorist and distances you from being dismissed as a lone madman.

    The demand for violence comes first with Islamic extremists, the justification of Islam then follows. That's why we see so many of these "devout Muslims" being alcohol drinkers or otherwise 'not very Muslim' until they snap.

    Something goes wrong in their life, they develop a demand for violence and to inflict their own suffering onto others, and they sympathise with extremism - Islam does not come into the mix right until the mid-point. So blaming Islam as the cause is dumb and annoying.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by IkeaLamp)
    The motive they say isn't necessarily their true motive. Vocalising support for ISIS, or for a greater cause, legitimises you into a terrorist and distances you from being dismissed as a lone madman.

    The demand for violence comes first with Islamic extremists, the justification of Islam then follows. That's why we see so many of these "devout Muslims" being alcohol drinkers or otherwise 'not very Muslim' until they snap.

    Something goes wrong in their life, they develop a demand for violence and to inflict their own suffering onto others, and they sympathise with extremism - Islam does not come into the mix right until the mid-point. So blaming Islam as the cause is dumb and annoying.
    No, you're right, I'm sure the fact that these people say religion was their motive for their terror has absolutely nothing to do with their motive for their terror. Whatever could it be.

    If only there was some kind of book they'd read that they could get these ideas from...

    Going out of your way to distance terror from Islam is making it worse. Instead, distance Islam from the terror. If we saw more Imams coming out against these nutjobs I'm sure we'd see less of it
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by 1010marina)
    No, you're right, I'm sure the fact that these people say religion was their motive for their terror has absolutely nothing to do with their motive for their terror. Whatever could it be.

    If only there was some kind of book they'd read that they could get these ideas from...

    Going out of your way to distance terror from Islam is making it worse. Instead, distance Islam from the terror. If we saw more Imams coming out against these nutjobs I'm sure we'd see less of it
    You mean the Quran, which says:

    "But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"
    "God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"
    "And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for God. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers.(The Noble Quran 2:193)"
    "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:256)"
    "Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God's will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them). (The Noble Quran, 15:2-3)"
    "Say, 'The truth is from your Lord': Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it):......(The Noble Quran, 18:29)"


    The Quran strongly suggests non-believers should be killed. Other parts of it directly condemn such actions.

    If the problem is in the ambiguity of the Quran, the evil person who is choosing the hateful interpretation over the peaceful interpretation is at fault. NOT the religion.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by IkeaLamp)
    You mean the Quran, which says:

    "But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"
    "God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"
    "And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for God. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers.(The Noble Quran 2:193)"
    "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:256)"
    "Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God's will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them). (The Noble Quran, 15:2-3)"
    "Say, 'The truth is from your Lord': Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it):......(The Noble Quran, 18:29)"


    The Quran strongly suggests non-believers should be killed. Other parts of it directly condemn such actions.

    If the problem is in the ambiguity of the Quran, the evil person who is choosing the hateful interpretation over the peaceful interpretation is at fault. NOT the religion.
    Doesn't make sense, does it? Kill the infidels... Don't kill the infidels...

    The problem is that it claims to be infallible, the perfect word from god. That's why so many Muslims find it hard to turn around and say ummmm yeah maybe we should ignore that part...
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by 1010marina)
    Doesn't make sense, does it? Kill the infidels... Don't kill the infidels...

    The problem is that it claims to be infallible, the perfect word from god. That's why so many Muslims find it hard to turn around and say ummmm yeah maybe we should ignore that part...
    a neat, annoying way of ignoring everything I put time and effort researching

    any Muslims who are killing civilians are evidently "turning around and ignoring parts", read my post
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    o ffs.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by IkeaLamp)
    a neat, annoying way of ignoring everything I put time and effort researching

    any Muslims who are killing civilians are evidently "turning around and ignoring parts", read my post
    But it's a personal choice which part you ignore

    These people ignore the calmer, more tolerant parts.

    You and the majority of Muslims (hopefully... Or god help us) ignore the more violent parts.

    Who's to say which set of people is more 'correct' in the eyes of the author/god? He's not one for speaking to the general public (and even if he did, that person would get branded a loony). As civilised people we believe that going on a terror rampage is wrong. These guys think they're in the right (and generally have their reasons and justifications to back themselves up).

    If you believe that the Quran is the true word of God and is flawless then its ambiguity is a major problem, which is why I think more religious leaders need to make a point out of saying that passages x y and z don't have a place in the civilised world. And if you go to hell for ignoring the order to kill infidels a) thank you b) why on earth would anyone want to go to a heaven with a god that wants that?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    ISIS has now taken responsibility for this attack

    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/18/us...mall-stabbing/
 
 
 
Write a reply… Reply
Submit reply

Register

Thanks for posting! You just need to create an account in order to submit the post
  1. this can't be left blank
    that username has been taken, please choose another Forgotten your password?
  2. this can't be left blank
    this email is already registered. Forgotten your password?
  3. this can't be left blank

    6 characters or longer with both numbers and letters is safer

  4. this can't be left empty
    your full birthday is required
  1. Oops, you need to agree to our Ts&Cs to register
  2. Slide to join now Processing…

Updated: September 20, 2016
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Today on TSR
Poll
How are you feeling about doing A-levels?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Quick reply
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.