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Which is a better degree to have

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    (Original post by carolinehj)
    Do you think Imperial would still consider me if my personal statement was more tailored to the natural science course? i.e. talking about maths, physcis and chemistry a lot?
    It's not the ideal way to apply. If you do go ahead with this, please at least make sure that geoscience is the focus of your application. I genuinely do not know if Imperial would reject you on a basis of an unfocused personal statement if your academic profile is otherwise good but it's not a risk I'd really advise you to take.

    Edit: Please don't take my word for this, check directly, but I believe that I may have heard that Durham allows you to submit a separate personal statement. If this is correct, you could have a general Geoscience personal statement for your choices as well as a specific NatSci personal statement for Durham.
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    (Original post by Zacken)
    lolwat
    ??? obviously. There can be two people going for a job, same class degree, same a levels, same charisma, same everything blah blah but one went to aberystwyth and the other went to cambridge. Which do you think will get the job?
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    (Original post by carolinehj)
    I don't live in the UK so it's pretty difficult for me, and I don't really know the uni vibes. In the summer I went to England but obvs the unis were in holidays then so they were all really empty. I've walked around some unis like Durham, and walked round lots of the l=London ones, but by 'walked round' I mean like outside to see the area, no one showed me around the departments or accomodation or anything.
    Try and get some of the vibe by posting on the specific uni threads here or maybe seeing if the departments will put you in contact with students on the course so they cna give you feedback.

    Do you have offers?
    If not just put them both down.
    If you are worried about putting one before the other then check with the department whether that makes a difference.

    Imperial has the London factor, obviously.
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    It's not the ideal way to apply. If you do go ahead with this, please at least make sure that geoscience is the focus of your application. I genuinely do not know if Imperial would reject you on a basis of an unfocused personal statement if your academic profile is otherwise good but it's not a risk I'd really advise you to take.

    Edit: Please don't take my word for this, check directly, but I believe that I may have heard that Durham allows you to submit a separate personal statement. If this is correct, you could have a general Geoscience personal statement for your choices as well as a specific NatSci personal statement for Durham.
    Yes I've definitely heard that, but I'm applying for natural sciences for everything except at Imperial (which doesn't do it cri) but I still really want to apply for geology at imperial, it's just cus most other unis have earth sciences within their natural sciences course. I'm hoping that my grades will give me an advantage over my personal statement, if you've got really good grades, would they give you an offer even if your personal statement isn't tailored to the course?
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Try and get some of the vibe by posting on the specific uni threads here or maybe seeing if the departments will put you in contact with students on the course so they cna give you feedback.

    Do you have offers?
    If not just put them both down.
    If you are worried about putting one before the other then check with the department whether that makes a difference.

    Imperial has the London factor, obviously.
    I don't have offers, I havn't even applied yet, form goes in next friday. Imperial does have the london factor, but that also means the expensive factor hahaha.
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    (Original post by carolinehj)
    Yes I've definitely heard that, but I'm applying for natural sciences for everything except at Imperial (which doesn't do it cri) but I still really want to apply for geology at imperial, it's just cus most other unis have earth sciences within their natural sciences course. I'm hoping that my grades will give me an advantage over my personal statement, if you've got really good grades, would they give you an offer even if your personal statement isn't tailored to the course?
    Oh right. Well I am assuming that you're applying with the intention of doing Geoscience modules in the other Natural Science courses even if you're not doing straight Geoscience so I still don't entirely understand why your personal statement wouldn't be focused on Geoscience even if you do mention other disciplines?

    As for your last question, I genuinely do not know. It is really not something that I can recommend doing though.
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    Oh right. Well I am assuming that you're applying with the intention of doing Geoscience modules in the other Natural Science courses even if you're not doing straight Geoscience so I still don't entirely understand why your personal statement wouldn't be focused on Geoscience even if you do mention other disciplines?

    As for your last question, I genuinely do not know. It is really not something that I can recommend doing though.
    Should I tailor by personal statement more to earth sciences then? I thought I'd probably have a better chance of getting an offer if I focused it more on maths/phys/chem, and then I could decide which modules I wanted to do later on (especially cus i'm not 100% sure)
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    (Original post by carolinehj)
    I know, tbh there's not much in it for me for the other factors, Durham may just have the edge location and vibe wise, but then again I wanted to know how much more prestigious the course is at Imperial because then Imperial might just have the edge. Ugh it's all so difficult.
    Durham Nat Sci is a fairly new course - until about 10 years ago it was very small and it appears to have grown in response for falling demand for science (and to tap into high quality cambridge rejects).

    Comparing the two courses: https://unistats.direct.gov.uk/Subje...eturnTo/Search v https://unistats.direct.gov.uk/Subje...eturnTo/Search

    Durham is larger - but given the fact that this encompasses a lot of pathways you might still benefit from small class teaching. The Imperial class size doesn't seem to top 30 students (whereas for Durham you would be in a group of 125 students).
    Durham seem to target people with 4+ A levels whereas Imperial seem more welcoming of applicants who only have the option to take 3 A levels.
    Durham contact time is lower (34% v 41% at Imperial - with Durham at 32% in 2nd and 3rd yrs against 45-46% from Imperial for those years - Imperial only tails off in contact time in 4th year (presumably because of research projects which have non timetabled contact hours).
    Durham has a much higher focus on exam results (>80% in yrs 1-3 compared to 69% and 75% in 1 and 2 at Imperial then less that 50% in the final 2 years).
    Durham awards many more 2iis than Imperial (13% of completing students got a 2ii - everyone at Imperial allowed to finish 4 years got a 1st or 2i).
    Both have very low drop out levels after 1st year - but at Imperial the level is 0%, at Durham 6% aren't still on the course after a year.
    Imperial's cheapest accommodation is £1,000pa less than Durham's cheapest - and their most expensive is £1,000pa more.
    Both have good student satisfaction results - but while at Durham there are some issues over feedback (promptness, detail and helpfulness) Imperial has a perfect scorecard: https://unistats.direct.gov.uk/subje...eturnTo/Search
    Accreditation at Durham covers Chem or Physics - if you take the right modules.
    Employment wise a LOT of graduates from both courses go on to further study - it might be useful to contact both universities and ask them more about what and where their graduates go on to. Most go on to "graduate" jobs - Durham is heavier on the IT job market, Imperial on Business. 5% of Durham NatSci grads go on directly to science employment, 20% of Imperial grads who are working have gone straight into science jobs.

    If you like exams, want to work for IBM, can afford £7k for your first year accommodation, are taking 4+ A levels (and expecting As or above) and are happy that you can study independently and wont drop out then Durham is your best option.
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    (Original post by carolinehj)
    I don't have offers, I havn't even applied yet, form goes in next friday. Imperial does have the london factor, but that also means the expensive factor hahaha.
    Nice analysis from PQ.

    Just put them both on and see which ones offer. You might be fretting about a choice you might not have to make.

    London is a positive for some and a negative for others.

    ps PQ liked your analysis, but wouldnt it point clearly to Imperial? or was that last bit being tongue in cheek?
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    (Original post by carolinehj)
    Should I tailor by personal statement more to earth sciences then? I thought I'd probably have a better chance of getting an offer if I focused it more on maths/phys/chem, and then I could decide which modules I wanted to do later on (especially cus i'm not 100% sure)
    Why are you applying in such a rush if you're still so unsure of what you want to study?
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    (Original post by PQ)
    Durham Nat Sci is a fairly new course - until about 10 years ago it was very small and it appears to have grown in response for falling demand for science (and to tap into high quality cambridge rejects).

    Comparing the two courses: https://unistats.direct.gov.uk/Subje...eturnTo/Search v https://unistats.direct.gov.uk/Subje...eturnTo/Search

    Durham is larger - but given the fact that this encompasses a lot of pathways you might still benefit from small class teaching. The Imperial class size doesn't seem to top 30 students (whereas for Durham you would be in a group of 125 students).
    Durham seem to target people with 4+ A levels whereas Imperial seem more welcoming of applicants who only have the option to take 3 A levels.
    Durham contact time is lower (34% v 41% at Imperial - with Durham at 32% in 2nd and 3rd yrs against 45-46% from Imperial for those years - Imperial only tails off in contact time in 4th year (presumably because of research projects which have non timetabled contact hours).
    Durham has a much higher focus on exam results (>80% in yrs 1-3 compared to 69% and 75% in 1 and 2 at Imperial then less that 50% in the final 2 years).
    Durham awards many more 2iis than Imperial (13% of completing students got a 2ii - everyone at Imperial allowed to finish 4 years got a 1st or 2i).
    Both have very low drop out levels after 1st year - but at Imperial the level is 0%, at Durham 6% aren't still on the course after a year.
    Imperial's cheapest accommodation is £1,000pa less than Durham's cheapest - and their most expensive is £1,000pa more.
    Both have good student satisfaction results - but while at Durham there are some issues over feedback (promptness, detail and helpfulness) Imperial has a perfect scorecard: https://unistats.direct.gov.uk/subje...eturnTo/Search
    Accreditation at Durham covers Chem or Physics - if you take the right modules.
    Employment wise a LOT of graduates from both courses go on to further study - it might be useful to contact both universities and ask them more about what and where their graduates go on to. Most go on to "graduate" jobs - Durham is heavier on the IT job market, Imperial on Business. 5% of Durham NatSci grads go on directly to science employment, 20% of Imperial grads who are working have gone straight into science jobs.

    If you like exams, want to work for IBM, can afford £7k for your first year accommodation, are taking 4+ A levels (and expecting As or above) and are happy that you can study independently and wont drop out then Durham is your best option.
    Thanks so much for all the info!! Really helps, I think I'd be really happy at Durham too and I think the atmosphere is much nicer, and there's much more going on within the uni. Might still bung in an application for imperial cus might as well lol. If I completely change my mind half way through y13 I can always re apply I guess.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Nice analysis from PQ.

    Just put them both on and see which ones offer. You might be fretting about a choice you might not have to make.

    London is a positive for some and a negative for others.
    Very true! Hopefully I get one offer and one rejection hahaha.

    (Original post by PQ)
    Why are you applying in such a rush if you're still so unsure of what you want to study?
    Many reasons: because my applications go in friday after next, and also I'd have no idea what I'd do on a year out, and also even if I don't know what to do, I might as well apply for at least something, and then if I change my mind, just pull out and re apply next year. But that probably won't happen since im applying for natsci which has so many options within the course which is really great for the position that I'm in right now lol.
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    (Original post by carolinehj)
    Very true! Hopefully I get one offer and one rejection hahaha.



    Many reasons: because my applications go in friday after next, and also I'd have no idea what I'd do on a year out, and also even if I don't know what to do, I might as well apply for at least something, and then if I change my mind, just pull out and re apply next year. But that probably won't happen since im applying for natsci which has so many options within the course which is really great for the position that I'm in right now lol.
    The deadline for both the courses you're talking about isn't until Jan 15th though...you've got another 3 months to do more research into your options.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    The deadline for both the courses you're talking about isn't until Jan 15th though...you've got another 3 months to do more research into your options.
    Yep but at my school the deadline is on friday for some reason??? Maybe it's cus we are an international school.
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    (Original post by carolinehj)
    Yep but at my school the deadline is on friday for some reason??? Maybe it's cus we are an international school.
    If you explain to your school that you're not sure on your choices yet then they will usually be happy to write your reference and pass your application back to you for you to adjust your PS and amend your choices.

    You can even apply for only a couple of your 5 choices and then add others later on.

    Schools just want to be sure that you aren't leaving everything to the last minute - if you demonstrate that you're using your time well to make a good decision then they're usually very happy to work with you.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    If you explain to your school that you're not sure on your choices yet then they will usually be happy to write your reference and pass your application back to you for you to adjust your PS and amend your choices.

    You can even apply for only a couple of your 5 choices and then add others later on.

    Schools just want to be sure that you aren't leaving everything to the last minute - if you demonstrate that you're using your time well to make a good decision then they're usually very happy to work with you.
    Thanks for the advice, maybe I'll talk to school about it. But honestly I don't think I'll ever be sure. I've seriously been through everything. I thought I was doing maths for ages, then chemistry, then engineering, then astrophysics, then philosophy, then earth sciences, it's been bloody ridiculous, I don't think time will help. So tbh I just want to get the fricken application in lol. Luckily natsci covers pretty much all those things so I can prolong deciding hahaha.
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    (Original post by carolinehj)
    Thanks for the advice, maybe I'll talk to school about it. But honestly I don't think I'll ever be sure. I've seriously been through everything. I thought I was doing maths for ages, then chemistry, then engineering, then astrophysics, then philosophy, then earth sciences, it's been bloody ridiculous, I don't think time will help. So tbh I just want to get the fricken application in lol. Luckily natsci covers pretty much all those things so I can prolong deciding hahaha.
    Completely agree with PQ just get a delat as your schools deadline is artificial. That said its about whether you put one in front of the other. Thats it.
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    Imperial geology
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    (Original post by PQ)
    Imperial's cheapest accommodation is £1,000pa less than Durham's cheapest - and their most expensive is £1,000pa more.
    I think this is pretty misleading. Firstly, from what I remember when I was applying to Imperial, their cheapest accommodation was in the form of flats that are very far away from the university, did not have very much capacity at all and were mainly for people in their second year who for whatever reason didn't have any private accommodation. The rooms that most first years occupy were in the region of £180-200+/week, which must be considerably more than you'd pay in Durham. Also, in later years when you're no longer in halls, surely it's significantly cheaper to rent in Durham than anywhere near Imperial?

    (Original post by carolinehj)
    Should I tailor by personal statement more to earth sciences then? I thought I'd probably have a better chance of getting an offer if I focused it more on maths/phys/chem, and then I could decide which modules I wanted to do later on (especially cus i'm not 100% sure)
    Natural Sciences courses are expecting to get applications from applicants who have applied for single-honours courses at their other choices.
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    I think this is pretty misleading. Firstly, from what I remember when I was applying to Imperial, their cheapest accommodation was in the form of flats that are very far away from the university, did not have very much capacity at all and were mainly for people in their second year who for whatever reason didn't have any private accommodation. The rooms that most first years occupy were in the region of £180-200+/week, which must be considerably more than you'd pay in Durham. Also, in later years when you're no longer in halls, surely it's significantly cheaper to rent in Durham than anywhere near Imperial?



    Natural Sciences courses are expecting to get applications from applicants who have applied for single-honours courses at their other choices.
    Oh really? So I could basically do a geology PS and still apply for natsci. Yes I expect Imperial accomodation to be horrendously expensive.
 
 
 
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