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Sarkozy vows to offer UK exit from Brexit if he wins French poll Watch

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    (Original post by Observatory)
    There is also a major assumption that we voted Leave over immigration.

    That might well be true but it is not what the referendum question asked and it is not why I for one voted to Leave.
    A significant bumber of people voted due to immigration and definitely enough to swing the outcome.
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    (Original post by Observatory)

    That might well be true but it is not what the referendum question asked and it is not why I for one voted to Leave.
    Libertarian brexiters are about as representative as lexiters. No one cares why a handful of ideological people voted.
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    It's a long stretch, but if it pays off and the EU was fundamentally changed I think it would be enough to substantially sway the Leave Vote to remain. If it got us out of CAP and the CFP all the better.

    I think it would have the backing of all those who voted remain plus one or two brexiters crucially the foreign secretary (who would actually be vindicated and set up for PM) , I think the Daily Mail and The Sun might be swayed and crucially Theresa May would be sensible enough to put it down to a general election rather than a referendum.


    Ah, I'm getter by carried away now, it's probably not happening. Still it might give some brexiters nightmares!
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    to put it down to a general election rather than a referendum.
    lol and i suppose if you fail the 'general election' on it there'll be something else - why not a royal enquiry. let's set up a parliamentary commission.

    can name it anything you want - the majority of the electorate made their opinion known and now is the time to respect it. still sulking months after the fact doesn't do you any good.
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    Its ridiculous jam tomorrow fantasy stuff. Cameron went cap in hand begging for change and they just laughed and sent him back with nothing meaningful. Lol talking about leaving CAP as well.
    1. Hes unlikely to get the nomination or be elected.
    2. He can change his mind as politicians do.
    3. They will not get a unanimous vote because other countries (especially the eastern Europeans will want controls).
    4. People have accepted we are leaving.

    Davij its called being a fantasist.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    A significant bumber of people voted due to immigration and definitely enough to swing the outcome.
    I wouldn't be certain of that.

    People who are very much opposed to immigration are generally on the far right and anti-EU anyway. The EU doesn't just boost immigration in their eyes, it sits at the heart of a constellation of political, social, and cultural values that they don't approve of.

    "Libertarians and lexiters" are your swing voters, not people who voted UKIP as a respectable alternative to the BNP.
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    (Original post by iThrow)
    lol and i suppose if you fail the 'general election' on it there'll be something else - why not a royal enquiry. let's set up a parliamentary commission.

    can name it anything you want - the majority of the electorate made their opinion known and now is the time to respect it. still sulking months after the fact doesn't do you any good.

    Silly brexiter.

    Electorates change their minds all the time. It's called democracy. If you don't like it move to Russia. Referendums don't change anything for ever more- we could vote to rejoin now and then leave again in two decades. Circumstances change. It's perfectly legitimate for parties and individuals to put forward whatever they want.

    999tigger


    I know, I just enjoy rustling the brexit brigades jimmies.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Silly brexiter.

    Electorates change their minds all the time. It's called democracy. If you don't like it move to Russia. Referendums don't change anything for ever more- we could vote to rejoin now and then leave again in two decades. Circumstances change.
    lol ad-hominem attacks, how'd they work out during your little project fear campaign.

    the side of logic and common sense conquered the side of snivelling, namecalling and fearmongering. my jimmies remain neatly ironed and creased.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    I wouldn't be certain of that.

    People who are very much opposed to immigration are generally on the far right and anti-EU anyway. The EU doesn't just boost immigration in their eyes, it sits at the heart of a constellation of political, social, and cultural values that they don't approve of.

    "Libertarians and lexiters" are your swing voters, not people who voted UKIP as a respectable alternative to the BNP.
    yes I am pretty sure that enough people voted on immigration to swing the referendum. It would take just over 2% or 4% of those who voted and it was one of the most important if not the most important issues.
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    First off: Full disclosure, I am neither a Brit nor other EU member. I am Canadian. That said, I'd have voted for Brexit.

    Buuuut... I have always liked Sarkozy. If the EU were being pushed more as federation of allied states rather than a monolithic overseer, I would be more inclined to listen.

    The EU had set things up so it was becoming more and more blunt in its imposition of will on its member states - Its push for a unified military makes me very uneasy and its bureaucratic obsession with micromanaging are counterproductive in a truly global society. Those are its bad points. Its good points are its openness between societies, the free trade aspects and its political will.

    I would definitely hear Sarkozy's offer. Decentralized power with political ties and free trade is pretty much the perfect scenario. Monolithic pushes to one-world governments is nightmarishly bad.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    yes I am pretty sure that enough people voted on immigration to swing the referendum. It would take just over 2% or 4% of those who voted and it was one of the most important if not the most important issues.
    I am not saying there are not a lot of these people, I am saying they are not persuadable.
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    (Original post by iThrow)
    lol ad-hominem attacks, how'd they work out during your little project fear campaign.

    the side of logic and common sense conquered the side of snivelling, namecalling and fearmongering. my jimmies remain neatly ironed and creased.
    If this goes through we'll see won't we?
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    If this goes through we'll see won't we?
    it will be a nice distraction for you whilst the big boys are busy getting the UK back on track.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    I am not saying there are not a lot of these people, I am saying they are not persuadable.
    Maybe the hardcore, but plenty of room for others to change their mind if migration wasnt an issue.
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    Clutching at straws
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    I think it's a good proposal and the immigration controls would probably swing enough of the British public to have a majority for remain, but convincing other EU leaders (especially if this proposal only applied to Britain) will prove difficult. I'm not sure what power Sarkozy by himself would have over the whole EU machine, anyway, I guess it would depend whether or not Merkel joined him.

    Having a complete re-run of the referendum immediately after this was offered would of course be undemocratic so must not happen. I, however, do support a referendum on the new deal, whatever form that may take, that we have with the EU, as presently we really don't know what Brexit actually means regarding our relationship with Europe. If the optimism of Brexiters pre-referendum doesn't pay off and our economic situation is substantially worse, it may be wise to present the full decision to the public again. I imagine that this renegotiated treaty would form a part of that, in the unlikely event that it does come to fruition. On the other hand, we may be lucky and get a much more favourable deal than we originally hoped for. It's just hard to really say what our next plan of action should be until the talks with the EU have been finalised. At the end of the day, we all need to do what's best for this country. If that means having another referendum at the conclusion of the talks, then so be it. If the Brexit deal actually turns out to be rather good for the country, then we should of course press ahead with that. But blindly clinging to one side or the other doesn't help anybody. My favoured result would be for Sarkozy to get in and instigate this process, so that we may remain in the EU with proper immigration controls (and I think a good number of people would find that to be favourable). I think Brexit is by far still the most likely option, so my primary concern right now is whether or not the government can secure a soft-Brexit with single market membership, or at least access for our services.
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    (Original post by iThrow)
    it will be a nice distraction for you whilst the big boys are busy getting the UK back on track.
    You mean Theresa May and her remain cohorts whilst the three stooges argue over where they're living and embarras themselves on the worlds stage?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ree-brexiteers
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    Too little, too late. It's easy to promise anything in a manifesto. The EU could have proposed rewriting any of the treaties at any point, but it hasn't.

    I wouldn't trust a French politician to act in the best interests of the British population. Why would they?
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    (Original post by Duncan2012)
    Too little, too late. It's easy to promise anything in a manifesto. The EU could have proposed rewriting any of the treaties at any point, but it hasn't.

    I wouldn't trust a French politician to act in the best interests of the British population. Why would they?
    If it was put in action via concrete treaty change first why not?

    As for the latter, to protect trade with the UK and to save the EU?
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    You mean Theresa May and her remain cohorts whilst the three stooges argue over where they're living and embarras themselves on the worlds stage?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ree-brexiteers
    what's more embarrassing - carrying out your your legal duty to enforce the will of the majority of the electorate or crying because you didn't get your own way?

    We decided we wanted out and are taking steps to ensure that it happens. All you can do is sit and sneer from the sidelines buddy.
 
 
 
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