Anyone else detest feminism?

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    All you need to do is take one look at mumsnet to see how toxic and anti-male feminism is these days.
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    My opinions on feminism have already been posted on this site elsewhere and these debates never fail to go through the same tired **** each time so I'm just gonna sit and watch

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    I hate modern day feminism because it is no longer about equal rights and is simply a game of oneupmanship against men.
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    On one hand it really helps the cause having such high-profile people speak out about feminism because those are the people who are listened to most, but feminism that excludes WOC or those from a poor economic background is not feminism at all
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    (Original post by Retired_Messiah)
    My opinions on feminism have already been posted on this site elsewhere and these debates never fail to go through the same tired **** each time so I'm just gonna sit and watch

    Best gif :heart:
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    hm, so do you like MRAs? they're for mens rights - why on earth wouldn't you support the concept of men's rights? that would be misandrist, wouldn't it? are you an MRA then? (see how easy it is to use this tactic?)
    Feminists support men's rights - if they don't, then that person is not a feminist.

    It's not a tactic. I'm not trying to convince anybody to be feminist. I expect it out of everyone I meet - if you not think men and women are equal and should have equal opportunities and status in life, then you are an ugly person and I clearly won't like you. There are, ofc, further conversations to have - rape culture, wage gaps, etc.

    Bottom line is you should not need to convince anyone that calls themself feminist that men 'also' matter.
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    I hate feminist some of them are contradictory and hypocritical they just pick and choose equal rights :dry:

    #meninist
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    The problem is that angsty teenagers get all their information about feminism from memes. They assume that if you're a feminist you're an extreme feminist.
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    (Original post by SpiritSharD)
    I hate modern day feminism because it is no longer about equal rights and is simply a game of oneupmanship against men.
    See my above post.
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    (Original post by Abstract_Prism)
    The problem is that angsty teenagers get all their information about feminism from memes. They assume that if you're a feminist you're an extreme feminist.
    But if you look at feminism it was always extreme. Those leading the feminist movement from it's inception (ironically called the second wave) were the kind who would lynch mob one of their own for simply stating that women were generally as violent as men within the house hold and that men also needed protection from domestic violence.

    Then you have so called first wave feminism which was claimed by the second wave. You know suffragettes.... who despite having a noble goal of women suffrage, were incredibly pissed off at the idea of non property owners having the vote, hated the fact disabled and none white people could vote and got their, often estranged, husbands jailed for tax evasion (seeing the husband was legally responsible for paying their wives taxes). They also created the white feather movement, which ultimately backfired for them, due to them understanding voting rights were historically linked to military service.

    Suffragette beliefs were a stark contrast to the much more marxist second wave feminism and extremely shocking and disgusting by modern standards (arguably even those of the time). Many american suffragette had also voted themselves as little as 30-40 years earlier to take away the right to vote from women in certain US states.

    From start to finish, despite the 'foot soldiers' or 'coffee shop feminists'... aka the common man or woman identifying as feminists, the vast majority of feminists don't realise the fact they are legitimising a movement, that from it's very inception is a horrifically pro censorship, discriminatory and even sexist, not only to men but also other women!

    The political heads spout incredibly awful generalised statements which comes across more sexist than the society they are trying to change while relying and legitimising some of the worst and most dishonest academic studies I have ever seen. And then rely on the claim that anyone who questions feminist 'theories' is sexist. It's a sociological theory.... hell if you can question Marxism, Liberalism and Functionalism... you can also legitimately question feminism. That's not me saying that I don't agree with some very valid claims from feminism, but the movement as a whole tends to resemble a lynch mob.
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    I don't see detest feminism, but I do believe in being a "equalist" where both genders are treated equally.
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    I detest anyone that wants women's suffrage.
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    (Original post by SuperHuman98)
    If Emma Watson stands up for feminism people complain because she is privelaged, and when she does nothing people will still complain because she is doing nothing

    You can never please people
    She's not doing anything. She's just yapping her gob to get an applause from simpletons.

    She's totally ruined my desire to get into Gryffindor.
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    Naw, most feminists are cool (typically chill, and broadly egalitarian). Most self-declared/vocal feminists are not, by contrast, but really very few of any real consequence (just ignore them). Yes, I object to hypocrisy, and will take no moralistic/sanctimonious lectures from anyone (least of all a privileged little while girl), but see no reason to detest such people. Pity tha fools :mrt:
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    I don't detest feminism in terms of the definition of the word, but rather some of the third-wave advocates of it. In principle feminism is something that everyone should follow - a woman's brain is just as capable as a man's brain, and vice versa. Women should be entitled to education, basic human rights, and so on.

    What I take issue with is the plight of the Western world on trying to solve Western problems through the guise of "feminism". For example, the gender pay gap. It's simply nonsense, and no credible economists support its existence. When you control for factors such as marital status, level of education, number of children, choice of occupation, etc, the gap disappears entirely and in some cases women are actually paid more than men on average. What Western feminists don't seem to understand is that women and men often make different choices in life, for example women may prioritise having children more than men at an earlier age. They make different occupational choices which happen to pay a lower salary.

    A lot of western women ignore the utter atrocities of the developing world, such as it being illegal for women to drive in Saudi Arabia, pressurisation of young girls into arranged marriages, rape being legal when within a marriage, and so on. There's quite a long list but hopefully I've made my point.

    I can support women like Emma Watson when she actually brings attention away from nonsensical first-world problems and onto issues that really affect women. The feminists I object to are the ones that moan about "rape culture" in the West when far worse things happen in developing countries, and the patriarchy. It's important to make a distinction between feminism in principle and third-wave male-bashing feminism.
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    Feminists support men's rights - if they don't, then that person is not a feminist.

    It's not a tactic. I'm not trying to convince anybody to be feminist. I expect it out of everyone I meet - if you not think men and women are equal and should have equal opportunities and status in life, then you are an ugly person and I clearly won't like you. There are, ofc, further conversations to have - rape culture, wage gaps, etc.

    Bottom line is you should not need to convince anyone that calls themself feminist that men 'also' matter.
    I will tell you straight up and bluntly: if you think that we, in the west, in 2016, have a culture of rape, as opposed to a culture of anything else, then you are a complete and utter misandrist, because all "rape culture" as a conception is, is the belief that men being masculine is evil (because hitting on girls, or wolf-whistling, or being confident to women, is what heterosexual women actively desire and expect from men in our culture, so it is anti-masculinity and therefore misandrist). and if you represent your belief in rape culture as feministic, you are categorically part of the reason why people do *not* identify as feminists anymore, because you are destroying and delegitimising it. and you honestly think you're apart from the feminists people call "feminazis"? if you pedal "rape culture", with all its falsehoods and made up statistics, you *are* a feminazi. and if you think that there's a wage gap based not on women's economic choices and freedom of contract, but rather discrimination, you are willing to delude yourself into thinking, simultaneously, that women are both just as capable as men, while at the same time *not* being as capable as men (because a) if they were, then why would there be discrimination? and b) if they weren't, how are you a "feminist"?)...which is pretty unsurprising for a "feminist" (pejorative)
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    (Original post by bones-mccoy)
    Best gif :heart:
    thanks I tried really hard
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    Feminism that advocates for equality is fundamentally a good idea. However, the Feminism that plagues society and mainstream media nowadays is beyond a joke. It's vitriolic, it's draconian, it's unorganised, and it seems to serve no purpose, at least here in the West.
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    I will tell you straight up and bluntly: if you think that we, in the west, in 2016, have a culture of rape, as opposed to a culture of anything else, then you are a complete and utter misandrist, because all "rape culture" as a conception is, is the belief that men being masculine is evil (because hitting on girls, or wolf-whistling, or being confident to women, is what heterosexual women actively desire and expect from men in our culture, so it is anti-masculinity and therefore misandrist). and if you represent your belief in rape culture as feministic, you are categorically part of the reason why people do *not* identify as feminists anymore, because you are destroying and delegitimising it. and you honestly think you're apart from the feminists people call "feminazis"? if you pedal "rape culture", with all its falsehoods and made up statistics, you *are* a feminazi. and if you think that there's a wage gap based not on women's economic choices and freedom of contract, but rather discrimination, you are willing to delude yourself into thinking, simultaneously, that women are both just as capable as men, while at the same time *not* being as capable as men (because a) if they were, then why would there be discrimination? and b) if they weren't, how are you a "feminist"?)...which is pretty unsurprising for a "feminist" (pejorative)
    When people say rape culture, they don't mean that the western world revolves around rape. But more often than not a blind eye is turned.

    Rape culture means that I fear for myself when I go out alone, or at night. I know friends who have been dragged into alleyways (by a man) and been saved (by a man). It means that people don't always take rape or sexual assault as seriously if her skirt was too short or she'd been flirting. Maybe she was giving him mixed signals...

    Rape culture also means that men should all inherently like sex. If a man is raped, people often don't take that seriously, either. Why didn't he like it? It was free sex!

    If you don't think rape culture exists, look at women (or people in general) in clubs. You carry your drink by the top to avoid it being spiked. You always walk home in a group. Carry your keys in your fist. If people start following you, cross the road. Go somewhere busy. These are things I've been told since I was little. If you've never had any of these thoughts, or genuinely feared rape, or been assaulted/raped, etc., it might be worth remembering that just because it doesn't affect you (for whatever reason), that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

    It's easy for me, as a white person, to say that racism isn't a problem in society. I've been punched for being white, but most of my friends haven't, so it's not really a problem, is it? Except, plenty of my muslim friends have faced racist attitudes in their life. It's easy to turn a blind eye, sometimes...

    White people are not inherently racist, and men are not inherently rapists. Not saying that, and it's sad that we immediately jump to "but not all men do it - it's not a culture!". Not everybody thieves, either, but we all lock our doors...

    Throwing around the word feminazi because you don't agree with someone is petty.

    If you believe men = women, you are a feminist. Women > men, misandrist.

    It's really not rocket science.
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    When people say rape culture, they don't mean that the western world revolves around rape. But more often than not a blind eye is turned.
    are you mental? :| rape is literally, perhaps, the worst crime that can be committed against a woman in the eyes of most men in our culture - where on earth are you getting this "blind eye turned" idea?! :| utter bull **** - damningly disgraceful. I won't put up with this "men don't care if women are raped" poison. this is pure misandry. listen to yourself! if I told you "most women don't care if a man is beaten up", would you say that was a sexist statement against women, for instance?

    Rape culture means that I fear for myself when I go out alone, or at night. I know friends who have been dragged into alleyways (by a man) and been saved (by a man). It means that people don't always take rape or sexual assault as seriously if her skirt was too short or she'd been flirting. Maybe she was giving him mixed signals...
    do you think it is more likely that a man is going to be assaulted at night, or a woman? be honest. it's a man. I mean, look at crime figures. look at statistics. women are seen to be too precious and too special to be hurt in our culture, so it's actually *men* that should be scared at night, not women. rape or not. men are on the receiving end of violence *far* more.
    and by the way, no honest and sincere man is going to see a short skirt as a sign of consent. I'm actually getting really fed up of this.

    Rape culture also means that men should all inherently like sex. If a man is raped, people often don't take that seriously, either. Why didn't he like it? It was free sex!
    oh don't you start this. don't you start going down that "feminists care about men "nonsense. modern feminist narrative is that men are the enemy and men are the oppressors against the oppressed women. what is a patriarchy without men? what is objectification without the objectifier (the accused, at least)? what is "man-splaining" without men? what is "male privilege" without men?

    If you don't think rape culture exists, look at women (or people in general) in clubs. You carry your drink by the top to avoid it being spiked.
    I can tell that you have never been to a club then. or you live in literally *the* dodgiest neighbourhood this side of europe.

    You always walk home in a group. Carry your keys in your fist. If people start following you, cross the road. Go somewhere busy. These are things I've been told since I was little.
    you're exaggerating hardcore. you're talking about common sense measures, not "non-rape measures". men and women do these things without any expectation of *rape* if they don't adhere to this.

    If you've never had any of these thoughts, or genuinely feared rape, or been assaulted/raped, etc., it might be worth remembering that just because it doesn't affect you (for whatever reason), that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
    no, I'm not saying it never happens, I'm saying that, at the rate in which it does happen, we do not live in a "rape culture". you want an actual rape culture? try the ****ing congo. or somalia. not the UK.

    It's easy for me, as a white person, to say that racism isn't a problem in society. I've been punched for being white, but most of my friends haven't, so it's not really a problem, is it? Except, plenty of my muslim friends have faced racist attitudes in their life. It's easy to turn a blind eye, sometimes...
    muslims aren't a race - how on earth do you have the nerve to generalise all muslims as non-white? have you any shame at all in making use of such a stereotype?

    White people are not inherently racist,
    how is this a necessary statement? what are you implying by the word "necessarily"? :| that they usually *are*? so ****ing regressive, mother of god...

    and men are not inherently rapists. Not saying that, and it's sad that we immediately jump to "but not all men do it - it's not a culture!". Not everybody thieves, either, but we all lock our doors...
    and here you are, saying "not all men" whereas you'll be saying "not all 'feminists'" in a minute...

    Throwing around the word feminazi because you don't agree with someone is petty.
    authoritarian, socially regressive feminism = feminazism. nazism = authoritarian. it's a word that makes sense. deal with it.

    If you believe men = women, you are a feminist. Women > men, misandrist.
    it's a shame that "feminists" like you don't believe men and women actually are equal though. that's why most people who *do* believe in gender equality don't call themselves feminists. do you at least see a glimpse of truth in that statement?

    It's really not rocket science.
    if I told you that I believed in freedom but my actual views were authoritarian, or if I told you that I was very anti-war, yet was actually very much in favour of most wars in history, wouldn't you call me a hypocrite? so surely you'll understand that people don't want to be associated with hypocrites (most feminists)?
 
 
 
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