Who are the Salafis?

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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    I agree, but it just appeared that the brother was rejecting all Takfir (which includes by scholars), which is what I was objecting to
    Yer just a takfiri salafi ain't ya :sad:
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    Regardless of the modern stigma attached to the word and it being hijacked by some zealous but ill informed youth all muslims are supposed to follow the salaf and try to emulate the salaf.
    We as muslims should follow the quran and sunnah according to the understanding of the salaf.
    hmmm in the kufr mind Salafism = terrorism. **
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    (Original post by the bear)
    hmmm in the kufr mind Salafism = terrorism. **
    Well in that kind of mentality then all muslims are terrorist.
    Interesting side point major saudi scholars are vocal anti terrorist preachers.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)

    the scholars tend to be critical of people who blindly follow the madhabs


    Salafis Repudiating the Hanbali School

    Those that came before were of the Hanbali Madhab, following and imitating the school of the Imam & Shaykh Ahmad Ibn Hanbal beginning with Ibn Taymiyya al-Harrani, Ibn al-Qayyim, Ibn Rajab, Ibn 'Abd al-Hadi, Ibn Qudama al-Maqdisi, then al-Zarkashi, Mari ibn Qudama al-Maqdisi, then al-Zarkashi, Mari Ibn Yusuf, Ibn Jubayra, al-Hijawi, al-Mardawi, al-Ba'li, al-Buhuti, Ibn Muflih and finally Muhammad Ibn Abd al-Wahhab & his sons. however now Salafis dissociate themselves from this School, declaring that they are Salafis

    Abd al-Aziz Bin Baz once stated in an interview that "he does not conform nor rely on the Hanbali Madhab & the jurisprudence of the Hanbalis but that Salafis only conform to the Quran & Sunnah

    And are Imam Ahmad & his brothers the other Imams not in conformity to the Quran & Sunnah? Or have the Salafis reached the Rank of Mujtahid Mutlaq and the Rank of Imam in Law - one who exerts his own personal reasoning & juridical opinion without following, not imitating who ever proceeded them? I seek refuge in Allah from such ignorance, illusion & deluded claims
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    (Original post by MuhammadDarcy)
    It is stated in the books of the Shafi’ Mufti of Makkah Sayyid Shaykh Ahmad Zayni Dahlan that Muhammad Ibn Abd al-Wahhab insulted the Prophet on many occasions, on one occasion he referred to the Prophet as a lowly messenger boy and on another occasion one of his followers remarked in his presence that his walking stick is better than the Prophet because his stick can be used to kill snakes while Muhammad is no longer beneficial, he was merely a messenger boy who is no more, he was also noted to have said that the recitation of Salawat on the Prophet from the Minarets of Mosques is a greater sin than a prostitute playing musical instruments in her brothel

    Salafis allowed a man by the name of Muqbil Ibn Hadi al-Wadi'i - known through his books & tapes for his propensity to insult & disparage those of the Scholars who disagree with him, those who call unto Allah, and the pious of this community of Islam - to produce some research at the end of his studies at the University of Madinah titled "about the Dome built over the grave of the messenger" sponsored by al-Ansari. in this paper he demands openly and without shame that the Noble Grave be brought out of the Mosque, deems the presence of the Grave and and Noble Dome there a Major innovation, and that they be destroyed! On top of that he was granted high marks and a passing grade!

    Do Salafis honour those who challenge the messenger of Islam, the beloved of Allah, the mercy to the universe and his intimate friend?





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    Do you have any references for any of this which could indicate the authenticy of these claims?
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    It is stated in the books of the Shafi’ Mufti of Makkah Sayyid Shaykh Ahmad Zayni Dahlan that Muhammad Ibn Abd al-Wahhab insulted the Prophet on many occasions, on one occasion he referred to the Prophet as a lowly messenger boy and on another occasion one of his followers remarked in his presence that his walking stick is better than the Prophet because his stick can be used to kill snakes while Muhammad is no longer beneficial, he was merely a messenger boy who is no more, he was also noted to have said that the recitation of Salawat on the Prophet from the Minarets of Mosques is a greater sin than a prostitute playing musical instruments in her brothel

    Do you have any references for any of this which could indicate the authenticy of these claims?
    Khulasat-ul-Kalam fi Umara’-il-Balad-il-Haram & ad-Durar-us-Suniyyah fir-Raddi ‘alal-Wahhabiyah


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    Yeah it does annoy me with the arrogance of 'some' of them.

    "Why look at the opinions of such highly scholars when we can go straight to the source (Quran and Sunnah)? " Smh.

    Though I've seen Asharis qoute Ibn Taymiyyah a few times. I know he disagrees with Tasawuff and Mawlid (etc.) but his character is still viewed highly in both worlds.
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    Yeah it does annoy me with the arrogance of 'some' of them.

    "Why look at the opinions of such highly scholars when we can go straight to the source (Quran and Sunnah)? " Smh.

    Though I've seen Asharis qoute Ibn Taymiyyah a few times. I know he disagrees with Tasawuff and Mawlid (etc.) but his character is still viewed highly in both worlds.
    Ibn Taymiyya al-Harrani was initiated into the Qadiri Sufi order and he held Sayyiduna Shaykh Abd al-Qadir al-Jaylani of Baghdad in a high regard and out of the Saints that Ibn Taymiyya has mentioned in his works he refers to Shaykh Abd al-Qadir as Qutb al-Aqtab (the pole of the Ascetics), in one of his books he mentions a miracle of Shaykh Abd al-Qadir

    "Shaykh Shihab al-Din Soharwardi wanted to study Philosophy and was confused between two books so his uncle decided to take him to Shaykh Abd al-Qadir to ask about which book he should study, when they entered the gathering of Shaykh Abd al-Qadir he looked at them and said this will not Benefit you in the grave, Shaykh Shihab understood that Shaykh Abd al-Qadir read his mind and he immediately repented."

    Also in the works of the students of Ibn Taymiyyah they mention that he had the ability to read the preserved tablet and so on...
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    There's a lot of sources that indicate that Ibn Taymiyya was inclined towards Sufism and that he respected and loved the true Sufis such as Shaykh Abd al-Qadir al-Jaylani, Bayazid al-Bistami, Shihab al-Din Soharwardi and countless other
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    (Original post by MuhammadDarcy)
    Salafis Calling Muslims "Pagans"

    It is not permitted to charge Muslims - believers in monotheism who pray with you, fast, pay Zakat, and perform pilgrimage shouting over and over, "Ever at your call, O Allah! ever at your call, there is no partner with you, ever at your call! Truly all glory and praise, all Favour and grace belongs to you, and all sovereignty and dominion! No-one can be a partner to you!" - it is not permitted by the Law, to charge them with idolatry (al-Shirk) the way Salafi Books and Publications are filled with such charges
    You misunderstand the issue - if one has a corrput understanding of monotheism, then they likely fall into polytheism - this is the same with the Christians and the Pagans of Arabia, for example, who believed in God being the creator and sustainer of all but then associated partners to Him, thus becoming polytheists.Scholars therefore establish what constitues acts and beliefs of polytheism, and then measures the beliefs of others against it. Therefore, when you say all this about charging 'Muslims' with polytheism, in essence it is charging polytheists with polytheism who use Islam as a screen or as a false basis for their beliefs i.e. if I was not familiar with dog breeds and I come across a German Shephard, it does not become a German Shephard the second I identify it, as it has always been a German Shephard, rather when I have identified it and said that it is a German Shephard, all I have done is made its breed known - similarly calling one a Mushrik is simply making the nature of one known, as he was a Mushrik before being called one, not just after being labelled it.

    Salafis Calling Muslims "Apostates"

    The Salafis have declared the Sufis disbelievers then the Asharis. They have denied and denounced imitation of and adhering to the Four Imams, Abu Hanifa, Malik, al-Shafi’ and Ahmad Ibn Hanbal. Whereas their imitators formed and continue to form the vastest mass (al-Sawad al-A’zam) of the Muslims.
    I have not read any blanket Takfir of Sufis or Asharis, rather I have only ever seen Takfir of those who in engage in specific practices which have been deemed to be Shirk, or scholars say that people from certain groups tend to hold certain beliefs which constitute Kufr, but they do not claim everyone is not a Muslim, instead advising a case by case basis; I do not support those who engage in blanket Takfir. It is worth noting that even on IslamQA (Salafi Fatwa website), it acknowledges Asharis as Muslims, though they consider the topic of Allah's attributes to be an issue upon which Asharis have erred.

    I have explained the topic of the Madhabs already, and I am not sure why you have mentioned it under the topic of disbelief... But in anycase, what is discouraged, as far as I am aware, is blind following in such a way which causes one to reject the haq when daleel is given to them - it is in this way where people start to say "but Abu Hanifa said this... but Ibn Taymiyyah said that... but... but..." and forget that it is the Sunnah of the Prophet (SAW) that we are meant to be following.


    Salafis calling Muslims "Deviants"

    After Salafis finished doing the above they let loose certain hirelings that they had nurtured, so that they began to throw accusations of misguidance and deviance at the Islamic Groups and organisations that work in the field of calling to Islam (Dawa) and are actively raising up the word of Allah and commanding the good and forbidding the evil. I mean the Jamat al-Tabligh, the Deobandi group that represents some of the brightest scholars of India, Pakistan & Bangladesh; and the Baraylawi group that represents the vastest mass of the common Muslims in those countries. The Salafis also published a book that contains the declaration that the people of Abu Dhabi and Dubai are unbelievers together with the Ibadis
    Who published what book specifically? You are ascribing the actions of individuals to the whole of Salafiyyah - it could be Abu Haleema for all I care, and you would attribute what he does with the rest of us, and this is wrong. Scholars praise Tablighi Jamaat and the Deobandis where they should be praised, but they find fault with that which is faulty, so to criticise those elements of what is wrong and to advise and warn thereby is not a bad thing, for this is a religion of sincere advice. In any case, one would find most criticism is aimed towards the like of the Barelwis who present Islam with many many innovations and corrupted understanding, both based upon fabricated or weak hadith and peculiar opinions.

    Salafis calling Muslims "Innovators"

    Salafis keep repeating the phrase of the Noble Hadith, "Every innovation is Misguidance" without discernment, only to criticise and condemn others, yet approving certain actions that contradict the Prophetic Sunnah without condemning them nor counting them as innovations
    Can you provide an example of where Salafi scholars have approved of actions which contradict the Sunnah? Furthermore, can you explain why doing certain actions are not innovations e.g. loud dhikr in a masjid in unison?
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    (Original post by MuhammadDarcy)
    Khulasat-ul-Kalam fi Umara’-il-Balad-il-Haram & ad-Durar-us-Suniyyah fir-Raddi ‘alal-Wahhabiyah


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    I am trying to look into these books to see where the author was getting his information from - can you help me in that? Other than being an anti 'Wahabi' scholar and thus having negative views of Ibn Abdul Wahab, I cannot actually find the basis of these claims.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    I am trying to look into these books to see where the author was getting his information from - can you help me in that? Other than being an anti 'Wahabi' scholar and thus having negative views of Ibn Abdul Wahab, I cannot actually find the basis of these claims.
    Shaykh Ahmad was a renowned historian and he was appointed the Shafi Mufti of Makkah, he had dozens of students including Ahmad Rida Khan
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    (Original post by MuhammadDarcy)
    Shaykh Ahmad was a renowned historian and he was appointed the Shafi Mufti of Makkah, he had dozens of students including Ahmad Raza Khan & he was respected by the likes of Yusuf al-Nabhani of Lebanon & Badruddin al-Hassani of Syria
    Using Ahmad Raza Khan as a character reference isn't exactly promising...
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Using Ahmad Raza Khan as a character reference isn't exactly promising...
    He studied with him & you wouldn't know any of his other students
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    I am trying to look into these books to see where the author was getting his information from - can you help me in that? Other than being an anti 'Wahabi' scholar and thus having negative views of Ibn Abdul Wahab, I cannot actually find the basis of these claims.
    Salafis spread lies about him because they couldn't take what he wrote regarding Muhammad Ibn Abd al-Wahhab
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    (Original post by MuhammadDarcy)
    Salafis spread lies about him because they couldn't take what he wrote regarding Muhammad Ibn Abd al-Wahhab
    I would argue the same about Sufis regarding Ibn Abdul Wahab, but I guess that is neither here nor there
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    I
    Are you a revert?
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    (Original post by MuhammadDarcy)
    Are you a revert?
    Yes, I am Alhamdulillah
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Yes, I am Alhamdulillah
    Alhamdulilah
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    Is it really wise for you to call people "wahaabis" or "najdis" (I've seen you use the latter one in the past)? Especially when they're nearly always used in derogatory ways? You yourself complain when people use terms for shia which you deem to be derogatory so surely this is hypocrisy.

    This seems to be the very sectarianism you complain about unfortunately.

    Btw I'm not complaining about actual name usage, that doesn't bother me one bit. Merely pointing out the hypocrisy.
    Salamunalaykum,

    There are a few key points i would like to address here:

    1. In terms of calling any particular individual a 'wahhabi' i have not done so. If you recall the period where i was called a 'rafidhi' on several occasions, i never returned the insult and called the person doing so a 'wahhabi'.

    2. I put the term 'wahhabi' in quotation marks, because the sunni lecturers and sheikhs used that word. Hence this is not an attempt at sunni-shia sectarianism, but rather, i am only quoting the title of the video, and the 'group' by which the sunni sheikhs themselves use to refer to a group or movement.

    Therefore i believe there is a clear and distinct difference here. You may respond to this post, and i may check it to see if you have raised legitimate points. However, i feel this is it for me in terms of debating this point, because i do not want to see it turn into a war of ego, in terms of who can make the last post or comment.
 
 
 
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