unlawfully held by bouncer

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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    What a surprise, arrogant person being arrogant.

    What was antagonistic that I did? I walked up to door and was shouted at straightaway to which I politely asked why and was screamed at "I don't have to tell you why"

    I was sober, smiling and friendly to that point and used to bullies so I thought I would get phone out so I would have proof of who this person was for him to try and grab me and get the phone out of my hand.

    How was I there being antagonistic?

    I was also turned away for another club around corner which I was annoyed at but when I asked why I was told a local gig was cancelled and so they only let in regulars, so at least they told me (though was angry they waited till I was front of queue where I was for over 20 minutes before telling me and staff were walking around handing out flyers)

    Antagonistic would of been screaming and shouting in their face and them talking it, as it stands this bouncer (at the first place) was agressive at me and screaming in my face and tried grabbing me.

    So in other words you have made a prejudice comment (thus have prejudice) against ASD people
    complete lack of insight demonstrated - the semantic - pragmatic issue is obvious to anyone who actually understands the issue ...

    the serial changing of clothes thing is something out of 'Mr Logic' from the Viz ...

    not ddiscriminating does not mean pandering to every whim of someoen with protected characteristic only doing what is reasonably practicable...

    and it still seems that people are not getting that there is no right of admission to private premises.
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    complete lack of insight demonstrated - the semantic - pragmatic issue is obvious to anyone who actually understands the issue ...

    the serial changing of clothes thing is something out of 'Mr Logic' from the Viz ...

    not ddiscriminating does not mean pandering to every whim of someoen with protected characteristic only doing what is reasonably practicable...

    and it still seems that people are not getting that there is no right of admission to private premises.
    I have no idea what you are on about, with my friend he was turned away for what he was wearing and we lived under 5 minutes away from club and there was only 1 other club in town which was more of a dancefloor with a bar attached than a club.

    Obvious you are just an ass though, no wonder you side with a bouncer.

    I would of been fine with no entry if the guy was not an ass about it, all it would of taken was "sorry we are full"

    We had no problems getting in elsewhere really though there was no other places around we wanted to go (either overpriced or rough)
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    when attemptingto be an expert on the 'night time environment' even if the event did happen in the day time it does help if you understand the law as it relates to the admission, removal and refusal of service with regard to a venue , whether licenced or not.



    clearly not one of what ?

    No i don't hold an SIA badge , you don;t need an SIA badge to be management of an event nor to be a provider of professional services outwith remit of SIA regulation .



    You have no right of admission to any premises , licenced or not - it is entirely at the discretion of the person in charge of the premises or his/her delegated representative ( i.e. door staff or in more exclusive or specialist settigns the ' door ***** ' ) and any action on the basis of refusal that is not phrased solely in terms of refusal being based in a protected characteristic (per the equality act) is doomed to failure,.



    Anyone has at any time the inalienable right to revoke your right of access to private premises they are in control of and to use reasonable force in ejecting you / ensuring you do not attempt to re-enter

    until you get this into your self -entitled and over inflated ego containing thick skull you will continue to have problems with venue management and their designated representatives



    now we are into freewibble

    you do not have the right of access to private premises and where access is offered it can be revoked without notice and reasonable force used to remove you ... in terms of licenced Premises S143 licencing act 2003 does not require drunkeness merely disorderly behaviour for the offence to be complete and consequently reasonable force be used in line with S3 criminal law act 1967

    Zippy - I will re-explain as I think you are confused. I left and walked past the bouncers in an enclosed space within the market that sold drinks. I was walking to leave the exit of the whole market several yards away and made it very clear to the bouncer when he first spoke to me that I was leaving.

    I never demanded to have right to the premises, and told him I was leaving immediately and that if he had a problem he should call the police. Therefore there is no 'justifiable' use of force - considering I was not intoxicated, not acting disorderly, and not committing any crime. The bouncer first actually admitted that he unlawfully grabbed me, but was not man enough to apologise. After several minutes arguing and me calling him out on his bulshit he got angry when he could see I could I didn't fall for his fake power, at which point I just walked away - he then grabbed me from behind and pushed me towards the exit then grabbed the drink out of my hand incredibly aggressively. (I did not fight this man as he was far bigger than me, and I have a lot more to lose than him)

    This is not justifiable use of force. Especially if the exit is literally 5 metres away (and when I say exit - please look at a picture of spitalsfields market it is ****ing huge and the exit(s) which there are about 20 are all ****ing huge (there are no doors).

    People like you make me feel sick inside and stop the world from being a better place. You actually stand up for someone who thinks its ok to take the personal of power away from of others unlawfully. You need to take a long hard look at yourself buddy cas you aint that zippy up there. Having someone be abusive and do that to you is a horrible experience for the person it happens to - this has nothing to do with ego.

    Freewibble? - yes because because fighting for freedom is freewibble..

    Get this into your thick skull - read what ****ing happened before you start quoting irrelevant laws. You talk a big game, but are too stupid to even read what I wrote. And then when you reply you just want to defend abusive sick people - probably only because you have a personal attachment to them since you work in that industry.
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    (Original post by ed98)
    Oh grow up. You weren't hurt and sound like you're trying to be smarter than you actually are.

    Don't be selfish. Do you not realise how much strain our public services are under? Not that you could press charges against this man anyway, you'd just be wasting police time.

    Get over it, stop being butt hurt and move on.

    Cas your so grown up....? I specifically said in original message people like you not to give answers... yet here you are, providing no help - I would say sir that it is you who needs to grow up and stop getting involved where you not wanted or needed.

    If by asking about the legality of the incident due to my ignorance on the subject and increasing my knowledge and understanding of what happened and who in the eyes of the law is to blame, then yes I am trying to be smarter than I am.

    Although I think ZippyRN is a turd, at least he answers with some facts and laws to back up his point of view. You have nothing - why dont you grow up and stop commenting on things you have no knowledge of.

    And Im not actually going to take this man to court this would take up too much of my time.

    Why don't you go an get abused and assaulted unlawfully by a ****ing pig of man - and then you can tell me how you feel... until then take your advice elsewhere.
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    (Original post by pikachu2dd)
    <snip>

    Freewibble? - yes because because fighting for freedom is freewibble..

    Get this into your thick skull - read what ****ing happened before you start quoting irrelevant laws. You talk a big game, but are too stupid to even read what I wrote. And then when you reply you just want to defend abusive sick people - probably only because you have a personal attachment to them since you work in that industry.
    Your freewibble is related to the way in which you are looking for a magic cheat code or proof that a course of action well tested is some how unlawful if you know the right magic words to say and the fact you so insistent on un lawful vs illegal etc... classic freewibble

    your behaviour became disorderly - therefore S143 offence complete ( one or both of drunkeness OR disorderly) , reasonable force used to remove you.

    the only 'abusive' 'sick ' person here is the immature child who thinks that they are above the law when it comes to compying with the legitimate requests of venue staff ... just like all the other special snowflakes who are ejected from premises or if they are really lucky get a 80gbp bed and breakfast at Hotel Plod up anddown the country day in day out, week in week out ...
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    What this sounds like to me, beneath all the bickering is that OP tried to leave somewhere with an alcoholic drink that may not have held an off sales licence and the bouncer tried to stop him leaving with the drink, which he is entitled to do. I do not know whether the use of force was justified, nor will anyone else in this thread as we only have the OP's account of what has happened, which will no doubt be biased in the OP's favour.
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    (Original post by moonkatt)
    What this sounds like to me, beneath all the bickering is that OP tried to leave somewhere with an alcoholic drink that may not have held an off sales licence and the bouncer tried to stop him leaving with the drink, which he is entitled to do. I do not know whether the use of force was justified, nor will anyone else in this thread as we only have the OP's account of what has happened, which will no doubt be biased in the OP's favour.
    exactly

    there are 4 version of 'the truth '

    - the perps version,
    - the victims version,
    - what really happened and
    - what can proven to the relevant legal standard of proof in a courtroom/ COs Office /discip
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    Your freewibble is related to the way in which you are looking for a magic cheat code or proof that a course of action well tested is some how unlawful if you know the right magic words to say and the fact you so insistent on un lawful vs illegal etc... classic freewibble

    your behaviour became disorderly - therefore S143 offence complete ( one or both of drunkeness OR disorderly) , reasonable force used to remove you.

    the only 'abusive' 'sick ' person here is the immature child who thinks that they are above the law when it comes to compying with the legitimate requests of venue staff ... just like all the other special snowflakes who are ejected from premises or if they are really lucky get a 80gbp bed and breakfast at Hotel Plod up anddown the country day in day out, week in week out ...
    at what point did it become disorderly? - I was leaving as the incident occured, I said I was leaving immediately, offered to leave immediately, was not drunk, was not abusive/ threatening/ or disturbing the peace/ and more than willing to discuss with the bouncer. I refused his request to finish my drink and leave it there (in a cardboard cup btw) - and asked by what law I was obliged to do so. And that he could call the police and I would wait for them.

    this is what you consider disorderly behaviour? (aka justifying assault)

    he had not right to use any force whatsoever at any point - Considering the above and the fact I said I was going he had no right to use any force (something he admitted I should remind you).

    I can tell by your message you are classing my incident as similar to ones you have experienced. I dont doubt there are many drunked crazy idiots who cause problems and get whats coming. this was not one of those incidents tho. This was clear abusive behaviour.

    I don't doubt it was a legitimate request - I am not legally obliged to comply with it tho, and they are entitled to ask me to leave - I have no issue with that. We have established this many times now - yet it still seems to be the only thing point you have. That however does not justify force (assault), and does not give him the right to take the drink out of my hand.

    If this happened to you I do not think you would be so 'cool' about it.

    All your responses evade the intricacies of the matter - why dont you stop being such a little coward and grow up and admit when youre wrong. You dumb ****.
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    (Original post by pikachu2dd)
    at what point did it become disorderly? - I was leaving as the incident occured, I said I was leaving immediately, offered to leave immediately, was not drunk, was not abusive/ threatening/ or disturbing the peace/ and more than willing to discuss with the bouncer. I refused his request to finish my drink and leave it there (in a cardboard cup btw) - and asked by what law I was obliged to do so. And that he could call the police and I would wait for them.

    this is what you consider disorderly behaviour? (aka justifying assault)

    he had not right to use any force whatsoever at any point - Considering the above and the fact I said I was going he had no right to use any force (something he admitted I should remind you).

    I can tell by your message you are classing my incident as similar to ones you have experienced. I dont doubt there are many drunked crazy idiots who cause problems and get whats coming. this was not one of those incidents tho. This was clear abusive behaviour.

    I don't doubt it was a legitimate request - I am not legally obliged to comply with it tho, and they are entitled to ask me to leave - I have no issue with that. We have established this many times now - yet it still seems to be the only thing point you have. That however does not justify force (assault), and does not give him the right to take the drink out of my hand.

    If this happened to you I do not think you would be so 'cool' about it.

    All your responses evade the intricacies of the matter - why dont you stop being such a little coward and grow up and admit when youre wrong. You dumb ****.
    blind spot and confirmation bias,

    seen this kind of scenario played out thousands of times in the NTE, at festivals and even in hospital emergency departments ...
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    :hahaha::hahaha::hahaha: Zippy please don't make me laugh. Now go away if you're gonna respond with idiotic answers like that. You didn't address any of my points AGAIN..... haha and now your consorting to blind spot and confirmation bias as your defense :hahaha:
    just for the sake of argument - I could say the same to you....
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    (Original post by pikachu2dd)
    :hahaha::hahaha::hahaha: Zippy please don't make me laugh. Now go away if you're gonna respond with idiotic answers like that. You didn't address any of my points AGAIN..... haha and now your consorting to blind spot and confirmation bias as your defense :hahaha:
    just for the sake of argument - I could say the same to you....
    Except of course i'm not the person trying desperately to prove to myself that behaving like a pillock and begin removed from a venue isn't my fault.

    The vast majority of those turned back or removed from a venue for their attitude are adamant they did nothing wrong ... funnily enough CCTV and/or independent witnesses often suggests this to be somewhat fanciful .
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    exactly

    there are 4 version of 'the truth '

    - the perps version,
    - the victims version,
    - what really happened and
    - what can proven to the relevant legal standard of proof in a courtroom/ COs Office /discip

    Hold on zippy - so If my story standups up to the truth - then you think I am in the right....

    you are one cofusing character mate....

    Just for the record everyone - I have kept the same story the entire way through albeit some details added here and there - read original post please. I asked this question not because I wanted your ****ing opinion of whether I was telling the truth or not - ****ing wasting my time Zippy Im not responding to you anymore. Not only are you a mockery to freedom and everything it encompases but you are also a dishonest antogonist individual. The only reason you responded is to defend these people because you are one of them.
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    I don't reckon you should leave this here. A sensible mature person would get on with their life make nothing of this and not even make a thread. However that is not for you How dare he grab you when you showed him no respect and openly flaunted a rule which almost every club and pub in the country apply.

    He should definitely let that go especially as letting people ignore him and openly flout the rules would not hurt his authority in general and impede his ability to do his job.

    A bouncer grabbing someone and dragging them out of a club is also not on Bouncers should only ever be allowed to ask politely for people to leave. How dare they get psychical with drunks. I mean we all know drunk people are polite open to reason and willing to behave.

    I also think the injury caused to you is very significant with no broken bones or notable injuries what so ever.

    I really cannot see any judge laughing this out of court.

    There is nothing wrong with you it is the world that needs to change.

    you go man fight the power.
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    (Original post by pikachu2dd)
    I was at spitalfields market at an alcoholic drinks event inside the market. Bouncers were stopping people leaving the event with drinks at the exits.
    I took my drink out an didnt listen to what they said and kept walking past them. Then one bouncer ran over and grabbed me - told me I couldnt leave with my drink. I argued with him for a long time, asking him to provide me with legal information on how it was breaking the law, to which he could not answer, then he got angry when I questioned his non existent authority and physically grabbed me from behind and physically forced me to walk to the street several yards as well as quickly grabbing the drink out of my hand. He then refused to give me his name. Before this I said I would leave willingly.

    My question is does he have any power to grab me in the beginning - I am not obliged to listen to him, especially if I havnt broken any law.
    Second could I press charges against him - if so what?
    Also would this constitute assault?

    Thank you to people with helpful comments.

    Anybody replying with 'I shouldnt have taken the drink out' - your opinion is not wanted here please dont leave it.
    Oh boo hoo, Stalin killed over 40 million Russians and you don't see them complaining to TSR. Grow a pair
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    (Original post by pikachu2dd)
    Cas your so grown up....? I specifically said in original message people like you not to give answers... yet here you are, providing no help - I would say sir that it is you who needs to grow up and stop getting involved where you not wanted or needed.

    If by asking about the legality of the incident due to my ignorance on the subject and increasing my knowledge and understanding of what happened and who in the eyes of the law is to blame, then yes I am trying to be smarter than I am.

    Although I think ZippyRN is a turd, at least he answers with some facts and laws to back up his point of view. You have nothing - why dont you grow up and stop commenting on things you have no knowledge of.

    And Im not actually going to take this man to court this would take up too much of my time.

    Why don't you go an get abused and assaulted unlawfully by a ****ing pig of man - and then you can tell me how you feel... until then take your advice elsewhere.
    Do you have severe autism or some kind of developmental condition by any chance?
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    (Original post by ed98)
    Do you have severe autism or some kind of developmental condition by any chance?
    dude seriously don't ever use autism as an insult many of the worlds greatest genius have been autistic. Fed up of seeing autism used as an insult, the world would be a far worse place without autism.

    I agree that OP is been ridiculous and I am not against insulting him, just please don't use autism as an insult.
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    (Original post by Luke7456)
    dude seriously don't ever use autism as an insult many of the worlds greatest genius have been autistic. Fed up of seeing autism used as an insult, the world would be a far worse place without autism.

    I agree that OP is been ridiculous and I am not against insulting him, just please don't use autism as an insult.
    I don't think autism was being used as an Insult , it is a valid line of questions when someone becomes fixated on a particular (mis)reading of the law / struggles with the concepts related to right of admission reserved because it is by it's very nature a nuanaced and instinctive decision that is made with the benefit of experince and what is known in as ' the copper's nose' it's one of the 'unteachable' skills of event / healthcare / policing work ...

    Semantic / pragmatic language disorder is an recognised part of the autistic spectrum and it is one of the things seen in the stereotypical ' high functioning ' person with autism - e.g. Mr Logic in the Viz and despite h the protestations that Sheldon isn't on the spectrum some of the traits and behaviours of Sheldon in the Big Bang theory .
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    I don't think autism was being used as an Insult , it is a valid line of questions when someone becomes fixated on a particular (mis)reading of the law / struggles with the concepts related to right of admission reserved because it is by it's very nature a nuanaced and instinctive decision that is made with the benefit of experince and what is known in as ' the copper's nose' it's one of the 'unteachable' skills of event / healthcare / policing work ...

    Semantic / pragmatic language disorder is an recognised part of the autistic spectrum and it is one of the things seen in the stereotypical ' high functioning ' person with autism - e.g. Mr Logic in the Viz and despite h the protestations that Sheldon isn't on the spectrum some of the traits and behaviours of Sheldon in the Big Bang theory .
    Hmm well I am high functioning autistic and understood the nuance of the bouncer situation with ease. Sheldon is a bit far fetched he is too stereo typical autism. I mean I am a lesser extent of sheldon in many ways, I am highly intelligent but don't quite hit the heights he does, I have a natural talent for maths, but again not to the same extent as Sheldon. I actually did try to create a social Algorithm like Sheldon did but for online dating it didn't work.

    However I did notice some tweaks made it more successful then others so maybe if done right...

    i am less socially awkward though and able to interact better then Sheldon but still weak socially overall.

    Maybe OP is on the autistic spectrum, just the last guys response seemed to imply autism as an insult.

    If he had said do you have autism by any chance I wouldn't make anything of it however following that or some kind of "developmental condition"

    seems to be putting autism as a slur rather then a simple diagnosis.
 
 
 
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