There is little enthusiasm for Brexit

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    I used to feel sorry for poor people because they didn't have the intelligence or nous to get a well paid job or start a good business. But now a lot of them voted Leave and they are going to be in an even worse position with inflation eating away at their benefit money and government spending cuts, I think it serves them right and I don't have any guilt about it at all.
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    Look I believe if there was a vote today remain would win by a decent margin, as there are people who voted leave that regret the decision.
    More importantly though is not whether a Brexit happens but on what conditions, what we never got to vote on was whether or not to stay in the single market after Brexit, this is much more important and it appears as if we might not, given May's current stance.


    The EU wants us to be a part of the single market with free movement of people
    May wants to prevent the free movement of people yet stay in the single market or somehow get free trade without free movement which I don't see as being likely, so either we or the EU will have to fold at some point and given the referendum was a yes or no question about staying in the EU, partly based on the NHS (350m) and laws, I say we should absolutely take that deal and secure stability to the economy.
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    (Original post by Ambitious1999)
    Democracy is only democracy is people are given honest facts before voting it can't be based on lies and misleading information.
    No, it is not. You are making that up. Facts were available for anyone interested. Every political campaign is based on lies and manipulation.

    Get over it.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    No, it is not. You are making that up. Facts were available for anyone interested. Every political campaign is based on lies and manipulation.

    Get over it.
    So ok if the Remain campaign had said leaving the EU will result in the EU army invading Britain as a lie to scare people into voting remain would make it ok?

    Some of the stuff from the Brexit campaign were downright lies and incomplete supporting evidence.

    The bottom line is peoples enthusiasm for Brexit is is getting weaker.
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    (Original post by Ambitious1999)
    So ok if the Remain campaign had said leaving the EU will result in the EU army invading Britain as a lie to scare people into voting remain would make it ok?

    Some of the stuff from the Brexit campaign were downright lies and incomplete supporting evidence.
    Yes. Freedom of speech also exists for idiots.

    The Remain campaign should have lied better.
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    (Original post by Ambitious1999)
    Democracy is only democracy is people are given honest facts before voting it can't be based on lies and misleading information.

    If they had elections in North Korea the electorate would be fed lies such as saying the sky would fall in if people didn't vote for Kim Jong Un and that Kim Jong Un is god. The result is everyone would vote for Kim based off those lies and that is not democracy.

    Lies and inaccurate incomplete information to win votes is paramount to electoral fraud. Such as including fee paying foreign students on student visas as immigrants to make immigration numbers look higher than what they actually are was used by the Brexit campaign.
    You can accuse remain as much as leave for lying.


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    (Original post by paul514)
    You can accuse remain as much as leave for lying.


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    I blame Leavers for being more gullible.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    I blame Leavers for being more gullible.
    As you see it


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    (Original post by paul514)
    As you see it


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    And Leavers who tend to be poorer and less educated will be even poorer after Brexit. http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews...id=mailsignout

    They should have listened to experts instead of self serving politicians and foreign owned media outlets like the Sun when they were told Brexit will make them poorer, so gullible.

    Brexit might make me better off since my business exports to other countries, ironic really.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    And Leavers who tend to be poorer and less educated will be even poorer after Brexit. http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews...id=mailsignout

    They should have listened to experts instead of self serving politicians and foreign owned media outlets like the Sun when they were told Brexit will make them poorer, so gullible.

    Brexit might make me better off since my business exports to other countries, ironic really.
    If you believe the pre referendum treasury report then you are the gullible one


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    (Original post by Maker)
    I used to feel sorry for poor people because they didn't have the intelligence or nous to get a well paid job or start a good business. But now a lot of them voted Leave and they are going to be in an even worse position with inflation eating away at their benefit money and government spending cuts, I think it serves them right and I don't have any guilt about it at all.
    Then you fail to understand why they voted, and what they actually want.

    Poor people, as you put it, have never head wealth or success. The one and only true positive that they have always had over countless centuries is their society. Its parodied a lot in the media, but it stems from truth. Poorer communities historically have been closely knit communities who band together in an almost family-like manner to protect/serve their collective interest. By contrast the higher up the wealth chain you go, the more isolated and exclusive peoples lives become.

    The collective 'poor' Dont give a **** about your financial arguments. They have always been poor, and probably always will be poor. For generations its all they have known. The pound drops? Things are harder to afford? Holidays are more expensive? Not going to work for these communities. They have lived through hardship before, and survived.. the idea of giving up a few purchases is much less convincing then it is for a middle class family who spend far more, travel more, and have more to loose.

    What they do care about though is the effect of globalization on their society/community. From my personal experience, many dont even realize that this is what they are fighting for.. and instead will pin their anger on singular scapegoat issues.. But it all boils back to globalization. They have seen their communities divided by mass immigration. They have seen their cities separate into ethnic zones that barely communicate/mix with each other.. The lower end of the job market has been eroded much more by immigration then the middle/upper ends, and in a community that values relationships far far more then middle class communities, the idea of giving the job to the best candidate is meaningless. They give the job to garry, because they know garry.. he is one of their own, and his grandma was friends with their pa. doesnt matter if garry does a worse job then an annomyous polish worker.. gary should get the job. What mass low-end immigration has done is tear through some of the poorer communities in our country, destroy one of the few things they actually placed value in (their community), and leave them arguably no better off then before.

    Now for me personally immigration is great. I come originally from a very working class background.. but these days I am well off, and immigration is nothing but a positive in my life. When I live in england I barely even see it, from my lovely leafy town, with our nice seccure jobs in non-threatened emploment sectors.. but I can still appreciate what it does to the 'poor'

    I hope from this you can get a better idea of why Remain lost the election.. and why shouting about the economy made no impact at all on large chunks of the population..
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    Don't worry brah, at least Britain is now independent and sovereign!

    Let's make Britain Great again! Quite literally.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    If you believe the pre referendum treasury report then you are the gullible one


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    I believe what I see, I see petrol has gone up because the pound is weaker, inflation will go up soon for everything else and its the poor who get the brunt of it because they can't swap Waitrose for Sainsburys. They swap Aldi for the foodbank.
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    (Original post by Reality Check)
    What a sneering and supercilious attitude towards people who voted differently from you. Who do you think you are!
    Because (though its far from an absolute) that was the kind of people that carried the vote. And those who werent - were tarred as such
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    "Outside the EU we could have prosperity on a level that we can't even imagine now"
    A claim reminiscent of "this herb will cure all your problems, impotence- GONE, baldness- GONE".

    But don't worry, now that we leave the EU, we won't be flooded with cheap labour from the EU, the house prices will drop, and most importantly of all: no more of those scary brown "refugee" hoardes coming in (if you accuse Britain of trying to escape the reprecussions of playing its role in destabilising the middle east- you should just move to the EU you socialist dimwits!).

    The grass getting is greener!
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    There won't be a lot of street parties when it becomes clear that around 2% of GDP per year is being lost.

    I wonder if Boris will have to go into hiding on Richard Branson's island?
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    (Original post by Ambitious1999)
    So contrary to the leave campaigns visions of street parties and national celebration following a massive victory for leave it didn't happen.

    So if Brexit was so great, then where were the street parties and national celebrations, an Independence Day for Britain? Very low key if that, and enthusiasm for Brexit is declining rapidly.

    It wasn't a massive victory either only a pathetic 4% majority, many of whom decided to vote leave on the day having been fed lies about immigration etc but having never thought it through.

    Now a lot of Brexit voters regret their decision.

    The pound is falling in value. Cost of petrol is going up. Cost of living and consumer goods set to cost more. We all remember the horror of the 2008 recession and misery of the last 6 years of austerity, then things were getting better in 2015-2016 our fragile economy improving. Now Brexit has smashed that recovery.

    At one time £1 would get 1euro and 30 cents now £1 is worth around 88cents in some places!
    University EU funding will cease. A lot of EU funded FE courses, appretiships etc will be gone and sadly it's those affected by this 16 year olds who weren't even given the bloody chance to vote presumably for fear they'd vote to stay.

    Also the days of bringing back generous supplies of cheap booze from Europe are over it'll soon be 1 lire of spirits max, another kick in the teeth for the hard working poor looking for a bargain.

    So if there wasn't a lot of pomp and circumstance on June 23rd there's not gonna be much more over the coming months more like a lot of grief and anger. Because enthusiasm to leave the EU is dying rapidly. It's probably got less support than the illegal invasion of Iraq but like that sadly its something that's gonna happen and is rapidly losing its support.

    Don't expect any waving of the Union Jack or St George's cross, we won't be partying and those who wanted Brexit...your ears will be burning, don't expect to feel comfortable in the false belief that this is any celebration, feel the guilt as jobs are lost, as opportunities for the young are snuffed out, enjoy paying more for your petrol and food. That the Scottish now have a lot more reason to despise the English having been taken out of the EU when most wanted to stay. What a sorry miserable mess this has become.

    Of course it need not be like that, May could see this lack of enthusiasm and call a second referendum, or a general election or damn well resign.

    Brexit means Brexit? To most of us it means jack s***
    we've been in recession virtually since the forties according to my grandmother and well she's 85 and we qualified to hold that opinion
    opportunities have grown for me I made thousands out of the event and am making thousands on my imported jewellery so much that i don't even mail it anymore i collect it in person
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    (Original post by Maker)
    I believe what I see, I see petrol has gone up because the pound is weaker, inflation will go up soon for everything else and its the poor who get the brunt of it because they can't swap Waitrose for Sainsburys. They swap Aldi for the foodbank.
    Ouch

    http://news.sky.com/story/lower-poun...-king-10612690


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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    Then you fail to understand why they voted, and what they actually want.

    Poor people, as you put it, have never head wealth or success. The one and only true positive that they have always had over countless centuries is their society. Its parodied a lot in the media, but it stems from truth. Poorer communities historically have been closely knit communities who band together in an almost family-like manner to protect/serve their collective interest. By contrast the higher up the wealth chain you go, the more isolated and exclusive peoples lives become.

    The collective 'poor' Dont give a **** about your financial arguments. They have always been poor, and probably always will be poor. For generations its all they have known. The pound drops? Things are harder to afford? Holidays are more expensive? Not going to work for these communities. They have lived through hardship before, and survived.. the idea of giving up a few purchases is much less convincing then it is for a middle class family who spend far more, travel more, and have more to loose.

    What they do care about though is the effect of globalization on their society/community. From my personal experience, many dont even realize that this is what they are fighting for.. and instead will pin their anger on singular scapegoat issues.. But it all boils back to globalization. They have seen their communities divided by mass immigration. They have seen their cities separate into ethnic zones that barely communicate/mix with each other.. The lower end of the job market has been eroded much more by immigration then the middle/upper ends, and in a community that values relationships far far more then middle class communities, the idea of giving the job to the best candidate is meaningless. They give the job to garry, because they know garry.. he is one of their own, and his grandma was friends with their pa. doesnt matter if garry does a worse job then an annomyous polish worker.. gary should get the job. What mass low-end immigration has done is tear through some of the poorer communities in our country, destroy one of the few things they actually placed value in (their community), and leave them arguably no better off then before.

    Now for me personally immigration is great. I come originally from a very working class background.. but these days I am well off, and immigration is nothing but a positive in my life. When I live in england I barely even see it, from my lovely leafy town, with our nice seccure jobs in non-threatened emploment sectors.. but I can still appreciate what it does to the 'poor'

    I hope from this you can get a better idea of why Remain lost the election.. and why shouting about the economy made no impact at all on large chunks of the population..
    I am sure they could be made poorer and even more closely knit sooner than they want.
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    (Original post by MasterJack)
    "Outside the EU we could have prosperity on a level that we can't even imagine now"
    A claim reminiscent of "this herb will cure all your problems, impotence- GONE, baldness- GONE".
    Yeah, these are the kinds of people that would trade their cars for a bag of magic beans. And then blame the beans when nothing happens.
 
 
 
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