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    (Original post by gr8wizard10)
    how do you interpret the following verses in the qur'an then, or do you selectively choose to ignore the following verses:

    (interpretation of the meaning): “He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allaah . . .” [al-Nisaa’ 4:80]

    god described obedience to the prophet (peace be upon him) as being a part of obedience to Him. then he made a connection between obedience to him and obedience to the prophet (peace be upon him):

    “O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger.” [al-Nisaa’ 4:59]

    following on god warns muslims not to go against the prophet (peace be upon him), and states that whoever disobeys him will be doomed to eternal Hell.

    “. . . And let those who oppose the Messenger’scommandment beware, lest some fitnah (trial, affliction, etc.) befall them or apainful torment be inflicted on them.” [al-Nur 24:63]

    and for those things not mentioned in the qur'an he clearly states to refer all disputes to muhammad (peace be upon him):

    “. . . (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger . . .” [al-Nisaa’ 4:59]

    just curious
    The only message that the prophet brought was the Qur'an.
    The title, "the messenger" implies a specific message, not his supposed general utterances throughout his life. The prophet's message was the Qur'an.

    That's how I interpret those verses.
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    (Original post by UWS)
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    (Original post by Poetic_Innocence)
    X
    What do you think of Shias?
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    (Original post by MiszShortee786)
    In an authentic hadeeth it is narrated by our Beloved Prophet Muhammad (Sallahu Alayhi Waslaam) that those who reject from my sunnah is not from my tribe.

    Just incase you have not 'researched' upon this hadeeth yet?
    I don't believe in hadith
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    What is the comments of black magic?
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    (Original post by Poetic_Innocence)
    The only message that the prophet brought was the Qur'an.
    The title, "the messenger" implies a specific message, not his supposed general utterances throughout his life. The prophet's message was the Qur'an.

    That's how I interpret those verses.
    If these verses only refer to obeying a specific Message that the messenger brought to us (namely the Qur'an), wouldn't it have been enough for them to simply say, for example, "Obey Allah" (seeing as the Qur'an is the word of Allah) instead of "Obey Allah and obey his Messenger"?

    Does the latter not imply some sort of distinction between the two?
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    (Original post by Poetic_Innocence)
    I don't believe in hadith
    Praise be to Allah.Firstly: Every Muslim has to believe in all the hadeeths of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) – if they are saheeh (authentic) – and not reject any of them, because his hadeeths and his Sunnah (teachings) are revelation (wahy) from Allah. Whoever rejects the hadeeth of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) has rejected revelation from Allah. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “By the star when it goes down (or vanishes).Your companion (Muhammad) has neither gone astray nor has erred.Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.It is only a Revelation revealed.He has been taught (this Quran) by one mighty in power (Gabriel).One free from any defect in body and mind then he (Gabriel in his real shape as created by Allah) rose and became stable.” [53:1-6] Allah has commanded the people to obey His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). He has enjoined this in many verses of the Quran, of which we will quote some. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “Say (O Muhammad): “Obey Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad).” But if they turn away, then Allah does not like the disbelievers.” [3:32] “He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad), has indeed obeyed Allah, but he who turns away, then we have not sent you (O Muhammad) as a watcher over them.” [4:80] “O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.” [4:59] “And perform As‑Salah (Iqamat‑as-Salah), and give Zakah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad) that you may receive mercy (from Allah).”
    [24:56] And there are many similar verses. The one who rejects the Sunnah is a kafir and an apostate. Al-Suyooti (may Allah have mercy on him) said in his essay Miftah al-Jannah fi Ihtijaj bi’l-Sunnah: Note that whoever denies that the hadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), whether it describes his words or deeds, so long as it meets the conditions outlined by the scholars, may be quoted as evidence, is a kafir and has gone beyond the pale of Islam; he will be gathered with the Jews and the Christians or whomever Allah wills among the kafir sects [i.e., on the Day of Resurrection]. Those who want to restrict themselves to the Quran only are called al-Quraniyyoon. This view of theirs is an old view which the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) warned against in more than one hadeeth, as we shall see below. Among the soundest evidence that this view is false is the fact that those who say this do not really follow what they say. How do these people pray? How many times do they pray each day and night? What are the conditions and details of zakah? What is the nisab (threshold of wealth) for paying zakah? What is the amount that must be paid? How do they do Hajj and ‘Umrah? How many times do they circumambulate the Ka’bah? How many times do they go back and forth between al-Safa and al-Marwah? There are many other issues for which the details are not narrated in the Quran, rather they are mentioned in the Quran in general terms, and the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) explained them in detail in his Sunnah. Would these people refrain from acting upon these rulings because they are not narrated in the Quran? If their answer is yes, then they have passed judgement against themselves that they are kafirs, because they have denied a basic principle of Islam that no Muslim has any excuse for not knowing and on which there is unanimous consensus among the Muslims. If they reply that they do not refrain from following these rulings, then they have demonstrated that their view is false. Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said – after quoting the verses that enjoin following the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) – These texts enjoin following the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) even if we do not find what he said specifically referred to in the texts of the Quran. These verses also enjoin following the Quran even if we do not find what is said in the Quran specifically mentioned in the hadeeth of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). So we must follow the Quran and we must follow the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). Following the one implies following the other, for the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) conveyed the Book, and the Book commands us to follow the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). The Book and the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) do not contradict one another at all, just as the Book does not contradict itself. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely, have found therein many a contradiction.” [4:82] And there are many hadeeths from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) which state that it is obligatory to follow the Quran and that it is obligatory to follow his Sunnah, for example, the hadeeth in which he said: “I do not want to find any one of you reclining on his pillow, and when he hears of something that I have commanded or forbidden, he says, ‘Between us and you there stands this Quran, whatever we find is permissible in it we will take as permissible, and whatever we find is forbidden in it we will take as forbidden.’ For I have been given the Book and something like it with it; it is like the Quran or more.” This hadeeth is narrated in the books of Sunan and Musnad from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) with a number of isnads (chains of narration) from Abu Tha’labah, Abu Rafi’, Abu Hurayrah and others. In Saheeh Muslim is it narrated from Jabir that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said in his Farewell Sermon: “I am leaving behind among you something which, if you adhere to it, you will not go astray after that. It is the Book of Allah.” The version narrated by al-Hakim says “The Book of Allah and my Sunnah.” (Classed as saheeh/authentic by al-Albani in Saheeh al-Jami’, 2937). In al-Saheeh it is narrated from ‘Abd-Allah ibn Abi Awfa that it was said to him: Did the Messenger of Allah leave a will? He said, No. It was said, How then is it prescribed for people to make wills when the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) did not make a will? He said, He made a will in which he enjoined (adherence to) the Book of Allah. (Narrated by Muslim, 1634) The Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah explains the Quran, as it explains the number of prayers, how much should be recited in them, which should be recited out loud and which quietly. It also explains the amounts of zakah to be paid and the threshold at which zakah becomes due; the rituals of Hajj and ‘Umrah; how many times one should circumambulate the Ka’bah, go between al-Safa and al-Marwah and stone the Jamarat (pillars), etc. When any Sunnah is proven to be saheeh, the Muslims are agreed that it is obligatory to follow it. There may be something in the Sunnah which a person thinks appears to go against the apparent meaning of the Quran and add to it, such as the Sunnah which explains the threshold of stealing at which the hadd (Islamic legal) punishment becomes due, and the Sunnah which stipulates that the married adulterer is to be stoned. This Sunnah must also be followed, according to the view of the Sahabah/Companions (may Allah be pleased with them) and those who followed them in truth, and all the groups of Muslims. Adapted from Majmoo’ al-Fatawa, 19/84-86 That which was brought by the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) is true just as the Quran is true. Secondly: You should not forsake your family; rather you should treat them kindly and strive to call them to follow and accept the Sunnah. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “Invite (mankind, O Muhammad) to the way of your Lord (i.e. Islam) with wisdom (i.e. with the Divine Revelation and the Quran) and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided.” [16:125] “And We have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years; give thanks to Me and to your parents. Unto Me is the final destination.But if they (both) strive with you to make you join in worship with Me others that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not; but behave with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who turns to Me in repentance and in obedience. Then to Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do.” [31:14-15] And Allah knows best.
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    (Original post by IRoranth)
    How do you interpret the Qur'an?
    Where does it tell you how to pray or do Wudhu in the Qur'an?
    Wudu - Quran 5:6 -
    "When you rise to prayer, wash your faces and your forearms to the elbows and wipe over your heads and wash your feet to the ankles"

    By "how to pray", do you mean the positions, or the words, or times of prayers? Because that's quite extensive. It's there, but it's spread over multiple verses, of course. Just like listing how to pray with reference to specific hadith's would take forever to do, because it's not all in one place.
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    [QUOTE=Poetic_Innocence;68025738]Wudu - Quran 5:6 -
    "When you rise to prayer, wash your faces and your forearms to the elbows and wipe over your heads and wash your feet to the ankles"

    By "how to pray", do you mean the positions, or the words, or times of prayers? Because that's quite extensive. It's there, but it's spread over multiple verses, of course. Just like listing how to pray with reference to specific hadith's would take forever to do, because it's not all in one place.[/QUOTE]

    Just out of curiosity, are you an Aalim?

    And also I just realised you do believe in the hadeeth if youre quoting it!
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    (Original post by MiszShortee786)
    Just out of curiosity, are you an Aalim?
    lol :P Are there any aakims on tsr? :P
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    (Original post by hamza772000)
    lol :P Are there any aakims on tsr? :P
    I dont know.
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    (Original post by MiszShortee786)
    I dont know.
    Okay
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    (Original post by Poetic_Innocence)
    By "how to pray", do you mean the positions, or the words, or times of prayers? Because that's quite extensive. It's there, but it's spread over multiple verses, of course. Just like listing how to pray with reference to specific hadith's would take forever to do, because it's not all in one place.
    I mean where in the Qur'an does it tell you about the positions, words, times of prayer and tayammum?
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    If these verses only refer to obeying a specific Message that the messenger brought to us (namely the Qur'an), wouldn't it have been enough for them to simply say, for example, "Obey Allah" (seeing as the Qur'an is the word of Allah) instead of "Obey Allah and obey his Messenger"?

    Does the latter not imply some sort of distinction between the two?
    It does seem as though simply saying "Obey Allah" would have been sufficient. But it is a common stylistic feature of the Qur'an.

    For example
    Surat al Baqarah -
    حَافِظُوا عَلَى الصَّلَوَاتِ وَالصَّلَاةِ الْوُسْطَىٰ
    Maintain with care the prayers and the middle prayer.

    "Prayers" and "the middle prayer" aren't two separate things. They're the same.

    Of course obeying Allah and obeying the messenger aren't different.

    The Qur'an outlines the way in which God communicates with us.

    "It is not for any human being that Allah should speak to him except by revelation or from behind a partition or that He sends a messenger to reveal"

    Prophets are simply mediums through which God communicates. And I think a quick flip through some ahadith speaks for itself, that it is obviously not God's message.
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    [QUOTE=MiszShortee786;68025806]
    (Original post by Poetic_Innocence)
    Wudu - Quran 5:6 -
    "When you rise to prayer, wash your faces and your forearms to the elbows and wipe over your heads and wash your feet to the ankles"

    By "how to pray", do you mean the positions, or the words, or times of prayers? Because that's quite extensive. It's there, but it's spread over multiple verses, of course. Just like listing how to pray with reference to specific hadith's would take forever to do, because it's not all in one place.[/QUOTE]

    Just out of curiosity, are you an Aalim?

    And also I just realised you do believe in the hadeeth if youre quoting it!
    No, I'm not an 3alim.

    And I'm not quoting a hadith. I'm demonstrating how long it would take to find all the verses of prayer by comparing it to how long it would take to find how to pray in hadith.
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    [QUOTE=Poetic_Innocence;68025954]
    (Original post by MiszShortee786)

    No, I'm not an 3alim.

    And I'm not quoting a hadith. I'm demonstrating how long it would take to find all the verses of prayer by comparing it to how long it would take to find how to pray in hadith.
    Exactly therefore looking in the hadeeth is more easier reference than the Holy Quraan?

    And it does not take long at all.
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    (Original post by IRoranth)
    What do you think of Shias?
    Shia's... I don't know much about them to make a fair comment to be honest.

    But I've read some comments on some of their leaders and some things they say are really disgusting.
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    (Original post by IRoranth)
    I mean where in the Qur'an does it tell you about the positions, words, times of prayer and tayammum?
    It's not in one verse, just like the positions, words, times of prayer and tayammum aren't in one hadith. I hope I'm making sense here??

    If you'll reference where all these things are in hadith, then I'll also do the same in the Qur'an.
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    [QUOTE=MiszShortee786;68025986]
    (Original post by Poetic_Innocence)

    Exactly therefore looking in the hadeeth is more easier reference than the Holy Quraan?

    And it does not take long at all.
    I just said I'm comparing them. They're both equally as time consuming.

    If it doesn't take long then you're welcome to tell me how to pray according to the Sunnah. Start to finish.
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    So you reject all Hadith and stuff? Surely not all of them can't be unreliable
 
 
 
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