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B1070 – Right to Refuse Sale Bill 2016 watch

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    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    Nay. This opens up the door to the ability to throw someone out of a shop because of their skin colour, gender, sexual orientation, accent, clothing, or simply manner of conducting themselves. That's a Britain that we've rightly got rid of and one that we should unite in not wanting to see come back. Given that this was co-sponsored by the new leader of the Conservatives, this just goes to show the division and hatred that continued Conservative-led government will stir up in the model UK.
    In actual fact, the reason this is not a Party/Gov Bill, is because it was proposed by adam very last minute, without time to get Party/Government approval.
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    I'm torn on this. I think the wrong decision was made on the gay cake case, but I'm concerned this Bill might be interpreted in ways which are over-expansive and regressive. Therefore, as currently written, nay.
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    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    Do you seriously want a society where people have to take into account whether they're going to be racially or sexually discriminated against when deciding where to shop? And what about those who might not be able to get to more than one place offering the service they want?
    I'm trying to think of something where there is only really one store and I'm struggling. It's also good to know you have so little faith in humanity that you don't believe that there will be PC alternatives for generation snowflake.

    And do I want one? I don't know, but I expect one, just look at the world around you and pretend such things don't already happen, most people don't give a **** but you get a not insignificant number who do look for niche things to make them feel warm and fuzzy inside for a massive premium, a not insignificant number of whom then don't shut up about it.

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    Nay, others have explained good reasons why to reject this Bill.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I thought we were allegedly a tolerant society, but just like with free speech it's a case of tolerant until they disagree.

    I do wonder why so many of you have difficulty with the notion that if you don't like a business model you don't buy from the business. Some people buy free trade for that very reason. It's hardly a complicated concept that you can shop somewhere else, or in the case of free speech not listening.

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    I find your constant attempts to portray left-wingers as 'crying' or 'sensitive' or otherwise immature very defective when this bill is inspired by what is effectively a tantrum over having to bake a cake.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I thought we were allegedly a tolerant society, but just like with free speech it's a case of tolerant until they disagree.

    I do wonder why so many of you have difficulty with the notion that if you don't like a business model you don't buy from the business. Some people buy free trade for that very reason. It's hardly a complicated concept that you can shop somewhere else, or in the case of free speech not listening.

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    It’s not until we disagree, it’s until you legislate for racism. Were the crowd of 1000 white people in Little Rock “within their rights” to say “Rape her, lynch her, tie her to a tree”? Are the signs that say “No N*ggers” or “No Muslims” or the infamous “No Blacks, Dogs, or Irish” within their rights??

    If you have a business, you should be committed to serving everyone who comes through your door. Nay.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I'm trying to think of something where there is only really one store and I'm struggling. It's also good to know you have so little faith in humanity that you don't believe that there will be PC alternatives for generation snowflake.

    And do I want one? I don't know, but I expect one, just look at the world around you and pretend such things don't already happen, most people don't give a **** but you get a not insignificant number who do look for niche things to make them feel warm and fuzzy inside for a massive premium, a not insignificant number of whom then don't shut up about it.

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    The only generation snowflake here is the right throwing a fit that they have to serve cakes to the damned, filthy imiagrunts and gais!1!!!
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    Wouldn't this also protect people like the LGBT community from having to make cakes that say ban gay marriage and other things against them?

    I would prefer it if this only applied to small businesses.
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    I think in it's current form, this bill is too open to interpretation. Having the certainty that a contract you have signed will actually be carried out is pretty important, and something which separates our legal system from less scrupulous ones. I'd be ok with allowing businesses to refuse to carry out a service before a legal document has been signed, but in it's current form, this bill is too questionable.
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    This Bill literally legitmises No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I'm trying to think of something where there is only really one store and I'm struggling. It's also good to know you have so little faith in humanity that you don't believe that there will be PC alternatives for generation snowflake.

    And do I want one? I don't know, but I expect one, just look at the world around you and pretend such things don't already happen, most people don't give a **** but you get a not insignificant number who do look for niche things to make them feel warm and fuzzy inside for a massive premium, a not insignificant number of whom then don't shut up about it.

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    Ever heard of a place called the countryside, where if you don't want to use the local shop you have to waste two or three hours in order to use the next nearest one?

    You may expect one, but there isn't one on the scale of the one that would be permitted by this bill, because businesses know it's illegal and they'll get a hefty fine and some very bad newspaper coverage if they do discriminate.
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    (Original post by Obiejess)
    This Bill literally legitmises No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish

    You're back!
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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    You're back!
    Yes

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    (Original post by The Financier)
    I think in it's current form, this bill is too open to interpretation. Having the certainty that a contract you have signed will actually be carried out is pretty important, and something which separates our legal system from less scrupulous ones. I'd be ok with allowing businesses to refuse to carry out a service before a legal document has been signed, but in it's current form, this bill is too questionable.
    Very much this. In it's current form, Nay.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    In the past signs read, "no dogs no blacks no Irish". Those signs were wrong, that discrimination was wrong and any attempt to recreate that type of discrimination today, especially against the LGBT community, is also wrong.

    We should oppose any attempt to undermine the rights of all people in our society to have equal and fair service when buying goods and services.

    (adam9317 really? )
    Being from our wee island, I'm sure you will know the story better than most.

    What this bill is not doing is discriminating against the customer [like in this case, Ashers bakery had no issue with serving the guy, even if he was gay] This bill simply allows the business to not carry out a service if it is the service that is against their wishes/ liberty; not the customer in which they are serving.
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    An amendment to change what the Crisis Committee does was rejected, an amendment to make a small change about the Crisis Committee's Chairperson was accepted, and a bill to allow discrimination was accepted after a very similar bill was rejected earlier in the term: Saracen's Fez submissions policy needs sorting out.
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    A 2nd reading; clarifying the wording and ensuring no discrimination was submitted but unfortunately could not be posted due to a limit in the GD of the 1st reading having to take 2 days.

    SF has agreed to put the 2nd reading straight to a vote tomorrow.
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    Division! Clear the lobbies!
 
 
 
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