Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by meridian0)
    You are a Christian/Muslim/Jew/Sikh/Hindu because your parents are Christian/Muslim/Jew/Sikh/Hindu. They taught you Christianity/Islam/Judaism/Sikhism/Hinduism. This is indoctrination. Yet you don't question your beliefs. You think your belief - the one you were taught since birth - is the correct one. You probably haven't even looked at other religions. You just keep your blind faith. Why?????

    I know this doesn't apply to everyone but it applies to the vast majority of religious people.
    not true, my parents didn't 'indoctrinate' me, I have always been defiant to simply believe what I have been told by others. I looked into all religions and came to the conclusion that Islam was the correct one for me.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by redleader1)
    So you had a make a thread because ? What about going to school, how many people actually like going to school ? You went to school and was educated because your parents made you. Yet you dont question your education.
    What? How is this remotely relevant? I went to school and got indoctrinated with the alphabet. Then words.
    And then the flipping times tables. Schools don't have a hidden agenda (bar faith schools maybe).

    School is a legal requirement. Many people do like going to school. I don't know if you have a point though.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by User1212)
    not true, my parents didn't 'indoctrinate' me, I have always been defiant to simply believe what I have been told by others. I looked into all religions and came to the conclusion that Islam was the correct one for me.
    Next you're going to tell me your parents think Islam is the correct religion for them. I presume they, too, were not indoctrinated, even if their parents just happened to have chosen Islam as well.

    Anyway, I know there are exceptions - I highlighed that at the end of my original post. So if you are an exception, which is pretty unlikely given that it's hard - dare I say, impossible - to critically conclude that an illogical ideology is true, then whatever man. It doesn't take anything away from the reality of indoctrination.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by meridian0)
    Next you're going to tell me your parents think Islam is the correct religion for them. I presume they, too, were not indoctrinated, even if their parents just happened to have chosen Islam as well.

    Anyway, I know there are exceptions - I highlighed that at the end of my original post. So if you are an exception, which is pretty unlikely given that it's hard - dare I say, impossible - to critically conclude that an illogical ideology is true, then whatever man. It doesn't take anything away from the reality of indoctrination.
    maybe your 'indoctrinated' to believe that all people who follow religion are indoctrinated, have you ever thought about that?
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Here's how to tell if you were indoctrinated into a religion, as opposed to educated in religion:

    Answer the following questions:

    1. Did your parents avoid taking or sending you to religious gatherings while you were a young child?
    2. Was your choice of religion made only after you had studied a range of religions as a young adult, with no significant prior exposure to your parents' or community's religion?
    3. Would your parents be neutral towards your choice of religion, or not mind at all if it was different from their own?
    4. Was the process of religious education with a view to religion selection initiated by you rather than your parents, school or religious organisation?
    5. Is your childhood local community predominantly non-religious or of a religion not selected by you?
    6. Did you choose a religion not followed by any of the schools you attended?
    7. Did your parents avoid initiating you (e.g. baptism, bar mitvah) into a religion while you were under 16?

    If all the answers are all "yes", then you were probably educated. If any are "no" then there has been at least an element of indoctrination.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by User1212)
    maybe your 'indoctrinated' to believe that all people who follow religion are indoctrinated, have you ever thought about that?
    No, I have never thought that because it is not the case. My parents are religious. They indoctrinated me with their religion, but I came to my senses in the end.
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by meridian0)
    Yeah, cherry-picking happens because people try to follow century-old religions but they still have to keep up with the current society so they can't shut down their brains altogether.
    Was that supposed to reply to my post?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Whitewell)
    Was that supposed to reply to my post?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Er yes, what you essentially said was people choose which parts of their scriptures they agree/disagree with. I'm saying they can't agree with everything because many things are outdated or nonsensical.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    What's the difference between this and being brought up an athiest because your family is athiest?
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JamesDobson)
    What's the difference between this and being brought up an athiest because your family is athiest?
    Atheists are just as capable of indoctrinating their children as superstitious people. I strongly suspect, though, that most atheists allow their own children to come to their own conclusions. I know I did. It isn't difficult: very few young educated adults will choose to believe superstitions if they have not been indoctrinated in them from a young age, which is why religion is decaying in the west. Most westerners are, at best, apathetic about religion and have no motive to indoctrinate their children.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JamesDobson)
    What's the difference between this and being brought up an athiest because your family is athiest?
    I suppose that atheists are very likely to have atheist children because they're not going to teach their children to believe in a religion. The difference is that atheism is not a belief system so there are no religious values - which can be a problem - to be forced upon the children.
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by meridian0)
    Er yes, what you essentially said was people choose which parts of their scriptures they agree/disagree with. I'm saying they can't agree with everything because many things are outdated or nonsensical.
    Reread my post please! I said nothing of the sort, i mentioned how some religions have a expansive ethical system along with their holy book when making ethical judgement.



    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Indeed. If religion were not taught to anyone until they were 18 then these beliefs would be all but non-existent.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by meridian0)
    What? How is this remotely relevant? I went to school and got indoctrinated with the alphabet. Then words.
    And then the flipping times tables. Schools don't have a hidden agenda (bar faith schools maybe).

    School is a legal requirement. Many people do like going to school. I don't know if you have a point though.
    Thats what your saying about religion ? You said how parents taught their children beliefs and understanding of religion right ? And that is indoctrination.

    So I was saying as a child you were also sent to school and was taught a range of subjects and isnt that indoctrination ?

    Should it matter if its a legal requirment.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by meridian0)
    You are a Christian/Muslim/Jew/Sikh/Hindu because your parents are Christian/Muslim/Jew/Sikh/Hindu. They taught you Christianity/Islam/Judaism/Sikhism/Hinduism. This is indoctrination. Yet you don't question your beliefs. You think your belief - the one you were taught since birth - is the correct one. You probably haven't even looked at other religions. You just keep your blind faith. Why?????

    I know this doesn't apply to everyone but it applies to the vast majority of religious people.
    I'm going to be nice to you. I say that because I want you to see that there are mean ways to respond to your OP, and I am actively resisting the temptation to choose one of those ways.

    Let me give you an illustration. Say there's a Christian, and as you say, they are only a Christian because of the Christian household they were brought up in. Then also imagine a Muslim. He is only a Muslim as an adult because he was brought up in a Muslim family, and so he has carried it on. Then imagine a Sikh and they have a similar story. And an Orthodox Jew, and a Mormon and a Catholic etc etc.
    Now imagine someone who would just say "I'm not religious" if asked what religion they follow. They live their day-to-day life as though there was no God, they live a secular lifestyle. Then, with your logic, they only have their beliefs because of the culture they were brought up in. They had a secular family, who taught them things, and now they just believe them in their adulthood.

    So if all these things are true, you should be able to see that you cannot use the fact that people often believe the religions they were brought up in as an indicator as to which belief system is actually true.

    In other words, you are being a hypocrite, but you don't see it, because you can't see that this is a philosophical worldview issue, not simply people being brainwashed with religion as a child. You posted your OP from a standpoint, from a philosophical worldview - the assumption that no religion is valid, the assumption that no god actually exists, the assumption of naturalism. You are being hypocritical.

    Either you must concede that actually, you've been brainwashed too (and so your OP falls apart), or you must concede that actually, religious adherents have an ability like you do to make rational decisions and form rational beliefs given the world that they experience (so your OP would fall apart).

    I hope that wasn't too mean. I'm happy to talk further about this if you like.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by meridian0)
    What? How is this remotely relevant? I went to school and got indoctrinated with the alphabet. Then words.
    And then the flipping times tables. Schools don't have a hidden agenda (bar faith schools maybe).

    School is a legal requirement. Many people do like going to school. I don't know if you have a point though.
    Let me make another illustration.

    I assume in your secular upbringing, you were shown love by your parents. I assume your parents tried to teach you that you were special. They tried to teach you that you were loved, and that you should love yourself and others. They taught you, I'm sure, that there's a big difference between you and say, a pet dog, in terms of value, or something non-living, like a toaster.

    Was that indoctrination?
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Pride)
    I'm going to be nice to you. I say that because I want you to see that there are mean ways to respond to your OP, and I am actively resisting the temptation to choose one of those ways.

    Let me give you an illustration. Say there's a Christian, and as you say, they are only a Christian because of the Christian household they were brought up in. Then also imagine a Muslim. He is only a Muslim as an adult because he was brought up in a Muslim family, and so he has carried it on. Then imagine a Sikh and they have a similar story. And an Orthodox Jew, and a Mormon and a Catholic etc etc.
    Now imagine someone who would just say "I'm not religious" if asked what religion they follow. They live their day-to-day life as though there was no God, they live a secular lifestyle. Then, with your logic, they only have their beliefs because of the culture they were brought up in. They had a secular family, who taught them things, and now they just believe them in their adulthood.

    So if all these things are true, you should be able to see that you cannot use the fact that people often believe the religions they were brought up in as an indicator as to which belief system is actually true.

    In other words, you are being a hypocrite, but you don't see it, because you can't see that this is a philosophical worldview issue, not simply people being brainwashed with religion as a child. You posted your OP from a standpoint, from a philosophical worldview - the assumption that no religion is valid, the assumption that no god actually exists, the assumption of naturalism. You are being hypocritical.

    Either you must concede that actually, you've been brainwashed too (and so your OP falls apart), or you must concede that actually, religious adherents have an ability like you do to make rational decisions and form rational beliefs given the world that they experience (so your OP would fall apart).

    I hope that wasn't too mean. I'm happy to talk further about this if you like.
    You are missing three points:

    (a) it is quite possible, indeed likely, that the OP was brought up in a religious family and made his escape into rationality,

    (b) bringing up a child to hold no specific irrational beliefs and allowing them to make their own choices when they are mature enough and educated enough to do so on their own is not indoctrination (rather the reverse) and

    (c) the indoctrination of children with specific irrational beliefs is likely to be long-lasting and difficult to escape from, which is why people stay with their family's religion.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by meridian0)
    1)You are a Christian/Muslim/Jew/Sikh/Hindu because your parents are Christian/Muslim/Jew/Sikh/Hindu.
    2) They taught you Christianity/Islam/Judaism/Sikhism/Hinduism. This is indoctrination.
    3) Yet you don't question your beliefs.
    4) You think your belief - the one you were taught since birth - is the correct one.
    5)You probably haven't even looked at other religions. You just keep your blind faith. Why?????

    I know this doesn't apply to everyone but it applies to the vast majority of religious people.
    1) probably
    2) true
    3) i do
    4) i do - though not the version I was taught since birth, that was more culture and tradition than anything imo and im tryna separate them
    5) it's convenient, I aint got time, doin an intensive uni course, though I would love to - maybe in the summer
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Pride)
    Was that indoctrination?
    Yes, it was but it had the merit of not involving irrational beliefs and being entirely neutral in outlook.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    I'm Christian, my parents are not. My children are 2 x atheist and 1 x agnostic, I preferred for them to discover and decide for themselves rather than trying to force my beliefs onto them, which was exactly what my parents did with us.

    I don't think there was much indoctrination going on with our lot.....but it does lead to some brilliant debates and for eldest son, an advantage in his A levels where he studied philosophy and could argue both sides with ease!
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: November 3, 2016
The home of Results and Clearing

3,579

people online now

1,567,000

students helped last year
Poll
Will you be tempted to trade up and get out of your firm offer on results day?
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.