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    (Original post by Orbital Rising;[url="tel:68302112")
    68302112[/url]]You may disagree with his ideas but he certainly wasn't stupid.

    Try reading Das Kapital you ****ing retard.
    Stupid, no, he was certainly an intelligent man and developed an interesting theory.

    It's just that that theory in itself is naive, hypocritical and at times downright silly.

    For one, he championed an atheistic society but never renounced his own religion of Judaism.

    Secondly, he advocated a dictatorship of the proletariat, albeit a temporary one, it's silly scattergun logic "oh the bourgeoisie dictatorship is bad, I know let's make our own dictatorship, that'll show em" literally sounds like a stereotypical tumblr SJW.

    Finally, I know you'll all say "B-But Connor, collectivist anarchism was Marx's true final aim so your point is void"

    To that I say, collectivist Marxist anarchism is even more ridiculous than authoritarian communism, I'm sure the former wealthy bourgeoisie will willingly give away all of their wealth and live in harmony with the workers, especially after a period of being brutally oppressed, and they definitely won't hire foreign militias using their money and influence to gain back control. Also, humans are inherently evil, it's naive to think that EVERYONE will work together and help each other, there will always be a few bad eggs causing chaos
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    (Original post by Orbital Rising)
    Orwell was a socialist.
    Lol. This is why capitalism still exists. Very clever reponse. I ran out of likes so just thought I better point it out here.
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    Stupid, no, he was certainly an intelligent man and developed an interesting theory.

    It's just that that theory in itself is naive, hypocritical and at times downright silly.

    For one, he championed an atheistic society but never renounced his own religion of Judaism.

    Secondly, he advocated a dictatorship of the proletariat, albeit a temporary one, it's silly scattergun logic "oh the bourgeoisie dictatorship is bad, I know let's make our own dictatorship, that'll show em" literally sounds like a stereotypical tumblr SJW.

    Finally, I know you'll all say "B-But Connor, collectivist anarchism was Marx's true final aim so your point is void"

    To that I say, collectivist Marxist anarchism is even more ridiculous than authoritarian communism, I'm sure the former wealthy bourgeoisie will willingly give away all of their wealth and live in harmony with the workers, especially after a period of being brutally oppressed, and they definitely won't hire foreign militias using their money and influence to gain back control. Also, humans are inherently evil, it's naive to think that EVERYONE will work together and help each other, there will always be a few bad eggs causing chaos
    Any problems of adaptability can be fixed with medical intervention. It's human driven evolution and 21st century Marxism.
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    (Original post by Orbital Rising)
    Any problems of adaptability can be fixed with medical intervention. It's human driven evolution and 21st century Marxism.
    Just to confirm that I didn't misinterpret that; are you saying that you would force that bad eggs to adapt to Marxist society?

    If so, how? There is no government remember, this is an anarchist society
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    (Original post by Orbital Rising)
    Any problems of adaptability can be fixed with medical intervention. It's human driven evolution and 21st century Marxism.
    And what of those who don't want a drastic change in societal structure (including many of the proletariat)? But then again, you don't care much for democracy do you.
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    (Original post by TheBirdman)
    And what of those who don't want a drastic change in societal structure (including many of the proletariat)? But then again, you don't care much for democracy do you.
    Capitalists and imperialists have backed fascist dictators to suppress socialist movements causing millions of deaths. They have caused global warming and the exploitation of third world workers to allow planned obsolescence in first world countries.

    And yet we all share the same planet.

    Capitalists don't care much for democracy do they?
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    Just to confirm that I didn't misinterpret that; are you saying that you would force that bad eggs to adapt to Marxist society?

    If so, how? There is no government remember, this is an anarchist society
    I'm talking about technocratic statism. I'm not a libertarian socialist.
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    (Original post by Orbital Rising)
    Capitalists and imperialists have backed fascist dictators to suppress socialist movements causing millions of deaths. They have caused global warming and the exploitation of third world workers to allow planned obsolescence in first world countries.

    And yet we all share the same planet.

    Capitalists don't care much for democracy do they?
    Socialism may seem lovely on paper, though the same can't be said for communism, however may I remind you of a few attempts at socialism/communism: Nazi Germany, The Soviet Union, Cuba, China. Could you survive happily in the place you are advocating for? Have you not benefitted from capitalism?
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    (Original post by shawn_o1)
    China has proven that their communist system is no barrier to economic prosperity. Better still, there is not one slacker in any country with a good manufacturing sector when your economy is ruled by banks, no wonder you moan at the first sign of hardship
    Or maybe not....
    http://capx.co/external/china-can-re...t-prevent-one/

    The Chinese economy is rigged, an odd mixture of command and crony capitalism, resulting in massive misallocation of resources and plain old graft and corruption As a result there are literally billions upon billions of yuan in non preforming loans sloshing around the system, and that's just what is admitted in official figures. May of these loans were based on the property bubble which has burst - which is why overproduced steel which would have been used in the Chinese market is being dumped, as was in the news recently. When the crunch eventually comes it will be an existential test for the Chinese banks - though we shouldn't get too smug as we'll all catch a cold as a result.
    Essentially China is the last shoe to drop in the global debt unwinding, but does not have the institutional infrastructure to deal with it. Corruption is already seen as the biggest threat to the legitimacy of the Party, leading to Xi Jinping's corruption drive - which has also fortuitously disposed of many of his opponents. Who knows what the fallout would be if a full scale depression revealed the truth? It's only when the tide goes out you see who's got no trunks!
    China also has a demographic problem, the effects of the Cultural Revolution, the Three Bitter Years and the one child policy had left a relatively aging population, The phrase is "China will grow old before China gets rich".
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    (Original post by Orbital Rising)
    I'm talking about technocratic statism. I'm not a libertarian socialist.
    In which case I'll remember to buy you a ushanka for christmas

    Joking aside, that's possible the most sinister thing I've heard, whoever disagrees will get "medical treatment". Hitler would've been proud
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    (Original post by TheBirdman)
    Socialism may seem lovely on paper, though the same can't be said for communism, however may I remind you of a few attempts at socialism/communism: Nazi Germany, The Soviet Union, Cuba, China. Could you survive happily in the place you are advocating for? Have you not benefitted from capitalism?
    There's clearly no point in talking to you. I'm not wasting my time. :facepalm2:
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    In which case I'll remember to buy you a ushanka for christmas

    Joking aside, that's possible the most sinister thing I've heard, whoever disagrees will get "medical treatment". Hitler would've been proud
    Hitler proposed sterilisation to reinforce the class system.

    I am proposing medical treatment to abolish the class system.

    But sure if it makes you feel morally superior compare me to Hitler.
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    (Original post by Orbital Rising)
    Hitler proposed sterilisation to reinforce the class system.

    I am proposing medical treatment to abolish the class system.

    But sure if it makes you feel morally superior compare me to Hitler.
    Hitler used rhetoric saying that anyone who disagreed with his view of the world was "wrong" and needed medical treatment.

    You've literally said that anyone who disagrees with your view of the world is "wrong" and needs medical treatment.

    The ends may have been different but the means are the same, you can't deny it.
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    Sedition.
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    lol I just finished a sociology essay, this thread had good timing. However, it was about functionalism but still managed to get some of that Marxist rhetoric in my evaluation ;-)


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    (Original post by Connor27)
    Hitler used rhetoric saying that anyone who disagreed with his view of the world was "wrong" and needed medical treatment.

    You've literally said that anyone who disagrees with your view of the world is "wrong" and needs medical treatment.

    The ends may have been different but the means are the same, you can't deny it.
    One can find random similarities between totally opposing movements if one looks for them. It is the ends which are important because they define the movement.
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    (Original post by Orbital Rising)
    One can find random similarities between totally opposing movements if one looks for them. It is the ends which are important because they define the movement.
    I'd strongly disagree that it's the ends that are important, the methods employed to enforce and promote the movement define it, the ends are just an abstract idea to work towards, the means are what movements actually do.
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    I'd strongly disagree that it's the ends that are important, the methods employed to enforce and promote the movement define it, the ends are just an abstract idea to work towards, the means are what movements actually do.
    Well then I'm a utilitarian and you're not.

    But the important point is medical experimentation treatment is radically different from mass extermination in gas chambers.

    Anyway I've had a tiring day so I'm not going to debate this with you. Let's just agree to disagree.
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    speaking as a triggered liberal, marx was a genius - his predictions about the future state of political and power structures were perceptive and rational - (ie, the rise of german national socialism, trade unions & the EU) - he did although get several things wrong (such as the inevitability of marxism and all the predictions tied up in that). - he was only a looney in the purely social sense.
 
 
 
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