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    (Original post by #ChaosKass)
    Dear me, still all take, take, take with students isn't it? PhD students should have to fund their own studies, rather than relying once again on the taxpayer. You're meant to be fully grown, independent adults.
    You say 'relying once again on the taxpayer' as if firstly these loans don't have to be paid back, and secondly that it is 'real' money. Actually it costs nothing for the bank of England to print, or digitally reproduce this money. It isn't like your uncle Phil digging in to his back pocket to lend you a spare tenner. It costs nothing for the bank to create these loans. Okay?
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    (Original post by Reality Check)
    You seem to be forgetting that Ph.D.s in high demand research areas already have research council funding attached to them.
    Of course I'm not forgetting: my MA was funded by the AHRC and I'm on a part-funded PhD. The point is that total funding doesn't cover all the projects nor does it cover all the applicants with offers. These loans add to the pool of overall funding and lead to much higher research output and average intelligence.

    (Original post by Reality Check)
    Furthermore, the 'high-demand' projects at the cutting edge have already been awarded by competition for the funding, so which ones are going to be left for the self-funders?
    The high-demand research areas are not even close to all being funded. There is a huge demand for more.

    (Original post by Reality Check)
    Yes, my figures are top end, so ok - take £20,000 off it. Doesn't really make much difference to the concept.

    Of course people are entitled to take on that much debt if they want - I never said they couldn't. I'm questioning the sense in saddling yourself with over £100,000 of debt for a self-funded Ph.D.
    I'm not sure why you're concerned about someone's choice to take on debt - if someone is happy to be burdened, then it is not a burden for them. It's the wrong question to be asking. The pertinent question is whether this is a worthwhile investment by the state via the taxpayer, and I answered that in my last reply to you.
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    (Original post by macromicro)
    Of course I'm not forgetting: my MA was funded by the AHRC and I'm on a part-funded PhD. The point is that total funding doesn't cover all the projects nor does it cover all the applicants with offers. These loans add to the pool of overall funding and lead to much higher research output and average intelligence.

    You're making some very dubious claims about adding to intelligence (whatever that means) by enabling students who weren't successful in obtaining a competitively-funded Ph.D. to borrow large amounts of money via government-subsidised loans to self-fund their place.

    (Original post by macromicro)
    I'm not sure why you're concerned about someone's choice to take on debt - if someone is happy to be burdened, then it is not a burden for them. It's the wrong question to be asking. The pertinent question is whether this is a worthwhile investment by the state via the taxpayer, and I answered that in my last reply to you.
    You seem to be interested in some highfalutin concept of 'the progress of civilisation', so my interest in individuals taking on huge debts seems small fry by comparison. Your concern for civilisation should lead you to the notion that civilisation isn't some free-for-all, and concern for your fellow citizens could be considered quite a feature of civilisation. My concern for my fellow citizens is the burden of a huge debt which has to be repaid in the end for possibly little gain.
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    (Original post by Reality Check)
    You're making some very dubious claims about adding to intelligence by enabling students who weren't successful in obtaining a competitively-funded Ph.D. to borrow large amounts of government-subsidised debt to self-fund their place.
    Many unsuccessful MA and PhD funding applicants are no less intelligent or capable. It is to some extent a lottery with most candidates being of the same quality. The deciding factor in many cases is simply timing, i.e. whether their proposal is suitable to a professor's own current research rather than any fault in their own intelligence. The state investing in these people is, in the long-term, essential. Imagine if undergraduate degrees could not be self-funded via loans - it's an absurd thought but only because our intelligence levels are continually increasing, hence why masters are more commonplace and have become more necessary, both for jobs and for our intellects.

    (Original post by Reality Check)
    You seem to be interested in some highfalutin concept of 'the progress of civilisation', so my interest in individuals taking on huge debts seems small fry by comparison. Your concern for civilisation should lead you to the notion that civilisation isn't some free-for-all, and concern for your fellow citizens could be considered quite a feature of civilisation.
    Your interest is misplaced; it is of no regard to you whether a person deems their student debt worthwhile. This has nothing to do with concern for others - they don't want your concern! They want to produce research and student debt is a small price to pay. But as I keep repeating, this is entirely the wrong question to ask.

    I agree, it is precisely because civilisation is not a free-for-all that state intervention is paramount for increasing progression.
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    (Original post by john2054)
    You say 'relying once again on the taxpayer' as if firstly these loans don't have to be paid back, and secondly that it is 'real' money. Actually it costs nothing for the bank of England to print, or digitally reproduce this money. It isn't like your uncle Phil digging in to his back pocket to lend you a spare tenner. It costs nothing for the bank to create these loans. Okay?
    It is real money if it has a value. The Bank can't just print more money for no reason all the time because that reduces the value of money and causes inflation. PhD funding is from governments or private firms which don't just ask the Bank of England to print out some cash. They actually spend their own money
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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    It is real money if it has a value. The Bank can't just print more money for no reason all the time because that reduces the value of money and causes inflation. PhD funding is from governments or private firms which don't just ask the Bank of England to print out some cash. They actually spend their own money
    Really? How else do you think they are repaying the national debt? They pay millions in this way, literally every day. So does the usa!
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    Hi all,

    Does anyone know the PhD postgraduate loan application process? Where do I apply? 2018/2019 academic year is approaching. Any information will be appreciated. Thank you.
 
 
 
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