Trump & Brexit is what happens when you smear all who disagree as racist Watch

Damien96
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#21
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#21
(Original post by JohnGreek)
I agree, as someone who was vocally for Remain and Hillary.

When you go out and call half of Trump's voterbase "a basket of deplorables", regardless of how accurate that may be, you are showing a degree of classism and arrogance that we haven't seen since the Victorian era. Don't be surprised when those "deplorables" go out and vote against you.
Very well said.

The Brexit comparisons are only accurate in that they were both working class responses to liberal middle class indulgences. Unfortunately, they haven't the self-awareness to rectify that and will just shout louder.
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Damien96
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#22
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#22
(Original post by Mathemagicien)
Also, not letting prisoners vote really hurt the non-white voting base, and thus the democrats. I wonder if polling data includes prisoners or not (there are millions of them in the US).
There is no doubt the Republicans use some astonishingly corrupt tactics, but regarding the polling, we see this time and time again, the polls say narrow lead for the left, the results shift a good 5-6% right. Happened in 1992, 2014, Brexit and now this.
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TastelessGum
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#23
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#23
It is curious that right-wingers like Trumpists and Faragists complain about the left being "soft" and PC and very quick to be "offended" when they are just as whiny and just as quick to take offense.

A **** ton of Trump supporters are racist. The former KKK chief (or whatever he's called - wizard?) endorsed Trump and every single bigot in the country thinks he is a god. It's not accurate to say that voting for Trump necessarily makes you a racist but it is fair to say that most racists vote for Trump because of his views on foreigners.
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Damien96
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#24
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#24
(Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
The more and more I think of it, the more utterly bizarre and counter-intuitive it seems to choose the status quo and perpetuate something so stifling and oppressive. It was like the political, societal equivalent of being in a windowless house and being offered identical, inescapable rooms as a 'choice'. It is safe in there, you get fed, and you don't know what happens if you break out of it. **** them. Take democracy back. They are the past.

You were dealing with basic laws of nature here. People have just had it with this self-congratulation, smugness, downright treachery and unending cruelty and evil portrayed as saintliness.

'Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.'

'There is a tide in the affairs of men....'

Two pertinent quotes from two great Britons.
They may have had enough of the status quo, but sabotaging the entire system is not going to help. We've been so indulged in the West that we believe our own ********.
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Damien96
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#25
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#25
(Original post by TastelessGum)
It is curious that right-wingers like Trumpists and Faragists complain about the left being "soft" and PC and very quick to be "offended" when they are just as whiny and just as quick to take offense.

A **** ton of Trump supporters are racist. The former KKK chief (or whatever he's called - wizard?) endorsed Trump and every single bigot in the country thinks he is a god. It's not accurate to say that voting for Trump necessarily makes you a racist but it is fair to say that most racists vote for Trump because of his views on foreigners.
I agree if you are racist you will likely vote Trump, but most of what you said, other than the guilt by association of David Duke, is just assertion.

Half the country are not bigots, a sizeable number, although very much a minority, of Latinos and women voted for him. Something else must be going on than "Racist!"

You are entirely right about the whinning, Farage and Trump are the perfect example of people who have been handed everything their whole lives moaning that they are victims.
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SaucissonSecCy
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#26
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#26
(Original post by Damien96)
They may have had enough of the status quo, but sabotaging the entire system is not going to help. We've been so indulged in the West that we believe our own ********.
But that's not going to happen, it's all melodrama.

He's the biggest chance of doing something different about manufacturing and trade, and not doing something suicidal re Putin.

America will go on fine and find a much better democratic candidate next time.

The thing that go wrong globally like climate change etc were there anyway, but of course every issue under the sun will be blamed on 2016 by Hillary/Remain/EU lovers.
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Damien96
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#27
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#27
(Original post by A Mysterious Lord)
It's true though, politicians have tried to shame people who have the 'wrong' views into voting the other way.

This is why the opinion/exit polls were so vastly wrong, people were reluctant to show their true allegiances in public but no such reluctance at the ballot box.
Exactly. It is nothing new. It happened in 92, 2014, Brexit and now here.
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Maid Marian
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#28
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#28
Completely agree and I'm so glad Trump won. Not because I like him, but because it's a victory against political shaming.
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Damien96
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#29
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#29
(Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
But that's not going to happen, it's all melodrama.

He's the biggest chance of doing something different about manufacturing and trade, and not doing something suicidal re Putin.

America will go on fine and find a much better democratic candidate next time.

The thing that go wrong globally like climate change etc were there anyway, but of course every issue under the sun will be blamed on 2016 by Hillary/Remain/EU lovers.
I disagree with you politically (I suspect) and think you are entirely wrong in conclusion, but I hope to **** you are right.
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yudothis
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#30
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#30
(Original post by rockrunride)
I wouldn't have thought it deterred Brexiteers from swaying, but there were a lot on the fence that would have heard the rhetoric and voted in defiance.

Defiance and the debate about political correctness are the main causes. When you are being shouted down as "racist" for voicing concerns about Islam and immigration, do you go "huh, yeah, I'll sit down and shut up" or do you feel further resentment?
I don't think that at all.

Oh no these people are being called racists, oh better vote for them just to show up these self-righteous people.

As I said above, it made people already holding these views much more likely to vote. That is what is at play here.

Look at the US, 6m independents - 2m last time and 1m in 2004. That cost Democrats - because Hillary wasn't liked enough.
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Trinculo
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#31
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#31
Why do black people vote democrat?
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yudothis
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Damien96)
Yeah, that's exactly the type of smugness I meant.
And your post is exactly the type of ignorance and bias that pervades Trump/Brexit.

Oooh "I guarantee it, make America great again, ohhhh jobs for America" - not like the people already having three jobs need more jobs rather than higher salaries.
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TastelessGum
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#33
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#33
(Original post by Damien96)
I agree if you are racist you will likely vote Trump, but most of what you said, other than the guilt by association of David Duke, is just assertion.

Half the country are not bigots, a sizeable number, although very much a minority, of Latinos and women voted for him. Something else must be going on than "Racist!"

You are entirely right about the whinning, Farage and Trump are the perfect example of people who have been handed everything their whole lives moaning that they are victims.
There's no guilt by association. I didn't say that you're a racist because both you and Duke vote for Trump. Learn what the fallacy is about please.

This is what I'm talking about. You can't even mention the word 'cos you people get all offended.

I said, racists vote for Trump because they like his views or rather his rhetoric on foreigners and Hispanics and the like. If you agree with those views - i.e. that Mexicans bring drugs and murder and whatever - you're likely an ignorant racist because there ain't a single study that has ever been conducted that showed that Mexicans are anything but less likely to commit violent crimes than natives (or no more likely to do so than natives). They come to the US to work not murder, rape or sell drugs. Fact. Contradict me and I'm prepared to provide the evidence. I hope you are too.

And enough with the numbers. Numbers mean nothing. Hitler had millions of supporters. Pol Pot and Stalin had millions of supporters. Freaking medieval Kings had supporters. If you got an argument other than "well, many people like him", I'm open to it. If not then don't quote me.
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yudothis
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#34
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(Original post by JKS64)
To be honest, despite both situations not looking particularly great, I do think both the results have been a brilliant wake-up call for governments. It shows that people have grown tired of how they work and that people are divided.
Not true, at least for the US - 50k and below income voters voted for Hillary by a margin of 10% points. He got the middle class because those are the ones that are actually not doing so well. They aren't poor but they can't move up.

And that's ironic because he wants to tax the rich less. Usually that means the middle class suffers. I mean he has said he wants to do something for the middle class, but looking at the other things he has said, I really doubt that will happen.
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Damien96
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#35
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#35
(Original post by littlenorthernlass)
Completely agree and I'm so glad Trump won. Not because I like him, but because it's a victory against political shaming.
I would agree if he wasn't such a narcissistic bully himself. I don't hold as optimistic a view I'm afraid. I only see further polarisation.
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JKS64
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#36
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#36
(Original post by yudothis)
Not true, at least for the US - 50k and below income voters voted for Hillary by a margin of 10% points. He got the middle class because those are the ones that are actually not doing so well. They aren't poor but they can't move up.

And that's ironic because he wants to tax the rich less. Usually that means the middle class suffers. I mean he has said he wants to do something for the middle class, but looking at the other things he has said, I really doubt that will happen.
I'm not particularly great with my US political knowledge, sorry. Still, I suppose that does show a class divide there too.
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TastelessGum
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#37
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(Original post by littlenorthernlass)
Completely agree and I'm so glad Trump won. Not because I like him, but because it's a victory against political shaming.
You know what? if you don't take the time to educate yourself on issues as complicated as the minimum wage, international trade, immigration, etc (on which even professional economists disagree) and just mouth off on the basis of hearsay, anecdote and "personal experience", you deserve to be shamed for being a dumbass.

That is free speech. You're free to be a fool and an ignorant bigot. But if others call you out on being those things, they're exercising the same freedom you did. Don't complain.
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Maid Marian
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#38
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#38
(Original post by TastelessGum)
You know what? if you don't take the time to educate yourself on issues as complicated as the minimum wage, international trade, immigration, etc (on which even professional economists disagree) and just mouth off on the basis of hearsay, anecdote and "personal experience", you deserve to be shamed for being a dumbass.

That is free speech. You're free to be a fool and an ignorant bigot. But if others call you out on being those things, they're exercising the same freedom you did. Don't complain.
:rofl::rofl:
Hahahaha! You're exactly why Trump won, I hope you're pleased with yourself, dumbass.
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Whitewell
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#39
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#39
(Original post by Mathemagicien)
Its just white people being white tbh.



Can't find source lol, but similar here
https://www.surveymonkey.com/electio...ials-white-cps
Yep. This was as much a backlash against a SJW society than it was against the political establishment.

Posted from TSR Mobile
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Damien96
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#40
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#40
(Original post by TastelessGum)
There's no guilt by association. I didn't say that you're a racist because both you and Duke vote for Trump. Learn what the fallacy is about please.

This is what I'm talking about. You can't even mention the word 'cos you people get all offended.

I said, racists vote for Trump because they like his views or rather his rhetoric on foreigners and Hispanics and the like. If you agree with those views - i.e. that Mexicans bring drugs and murder and whatever - you're likely an ignorant racist because there ain't a single study that has ever been conducted that showed that Mexicans are anything but less likely to commit violent crimes than natives (or no more likely to do so than natives). They come to the US to work not murder, rape or sell drugs. Fact. Contradict me and I'm prepared to provide the evidence. I hope you are too.

And enough with the numbers. Numbers mean nothing. Hitler had millions of supporters. Pol Pot and Stalin had millions of supporters. Freaking medieval Kings had supporters. If you got an argument other than "well, many people like him", I'm open to it. If not then don't quote me.
Pot, meet kettle.

I found it hard to get past "Learn what fallacy is please" when you assumed I voted for Trump, I didn't, as I'm not American and I hate the man with a passion.

You should feel a little silly now for the rest of the rant and learn how assuming a person's position based on zero evidence leads to embarrassment.

Well done for angaging in Godwin's Law though, it's always a good way to end a conversation when someone misses the point.
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