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Do you think the BNP will ever EVER win a general election? watch

  • View Poll Results: Do you think the BNP will EVER win a general election?
    Yes
    10
    8.93%
    No
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    81.25%
    Who cares?
    11
    9.82%

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    (Original post by Dionysus)
    As a general rule, no I don't. I also believe it is a bad idea to allow a party whose leaders have been convicted of inciting racial hatred to continue to appear on the ballot paper. There have to be limits to what is considered a legitimate view, but they also have to be set in stone and not subject to future government interference and manipulation because, yes, this would be even more dangerous.
    Hmm, I think the distinction between 'criticism' of the members of a particular faith/ ethnicity, and 'hatred' is pretty blurred. Also, I don't see how it is desirable to give people criminal records for the way they think politically(rather than act). To me, that's where the line of acceptable government intrusion into people's private lives are crossed. I'd like to make it clear that I have absolutely no love for the BNP whatsoever, quite the opposite in fact, but I'd defend their right to say what they say, just as I'd defend the rights of Galloway and Livingstone (people I detest as much as the BNP) to say what they like. Furthermore, I'm absolutely convinced that banning the BNP would make them much, much more popular as it would give them even more leverage to say that 'the system' is trying to hurt Britain and white British people, and that 'drastic action' is needed.
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    For all those wanting to ban the BNP from participating in democratic elections you are simply using fascist means to get rid of what you think is a fascist problem. Very hypocritical.

    You cannot in one area of life talk about how great our freedom of speech is and how we should all have the freedom to move around etc (i.e liberty) but at the same time be prepared to deny freedom of speech to others purely because you, yourself do not agree with them.

    Infact it displays tremendous insecurity in the validity of your own position- that you are prepared to sacrifice your own values in order to repress them. Surely if you are right then you will be able to use reason and debate to demonstate you are right?

    Liberty lost is very difficult to regain, something many could do well to remember with authotarianism growing in this country (90 day detentions, "incitement to racial hatred" etc trying to establish "legal" views and "illegal" views).
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    well said zebedee.
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    (Original post by Dionysus)
    Of course not. That said, the Nazis had less support the year before they took power. I doubt they will remain legal for much longer, anyway, the home office are actively looking for a way to shut them down, and quite rightly.
    Presumably you're in favour of banning other extremist parties as well, then? Like the Socialist Workers Party?
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    (Original post by Dionysus)
    Of course not. That said, the Nazis had less support the year before they took power. I doubt they will remain legal for much longer, anyway, the home office are actively looking for a way to shut them down, and quite rightly.
    I sincerely hope that's not the case, because if it is then it will be the most benightedly stupid thing the Government has done since March 2003.
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    Glad some people agree.

    I do think its worrying that the centrists amongst us seem to be terribly intolerant of "extreme views". Infact our whole society seems to be progressing towards political uniformity which can only be bad for real democracy.

    I blame mostly the media for the way they snipe down any vaquely controversial opinion. Its all a sympton of fear and insecurity really, the centrist politicians know that the "extreme" left and right both have some valid points but instead of addressing them (and being sniped by the media) they simply ignore them as "extreme". This leads to a burning resentment either side of the centrist camp, which in time i think will boil over - but its a way off yet.

    This may be anecdotal but most people i speak to feel politicians are largely irrelevent to their lives, they are uninspired by their choices at the ballot box and generally feel uninvolved with the whole thing. This could be alleviated by the media giving fairer coverage to all parts of the political spectrum.

    This centrist drift is exacerbated by the way that as the coverage is more centrist the people become conditioned to the lack of controversy and tend to vote according to what they feel comfortable with, all resulting in a drift of public views towards the centre where politicians largely play a game of PR and image to seperate themselves.

    i don't think the BNP will ever win a general election, due to 1) the flaws in the party and 2) the media climate we have. But at the same time many of the views of the BNP are becoming more and more important in the minds of the average brit.
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    I sincerely hope that's not the case, because if it is then it will be the most benightedly stupid thing the Government has done since March 2003.
    No labour government would shut down the far right parties that split the tory vote.

    And the far right parties are also quite useful, in that they remove extremist elements from mainstream politics and push the main parties towards the centre.
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    (Original post by Shaun39)
    No labour government would shut down the far right parties that split the tory vote.
    I agree with your second point, but this one - not so much. I think the mainstream-aimed PR of being the government that banned the BNP would sorely tempt Labour. Personally I don't think it comes anywhere near outweighing the benefits of keeping the far right vote largely in one place where it can have an eye kept on it, but then I'm not the government.
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    I think they might get slightly bigger than they are now but i odnt see it in the near future.
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    It would be silly to ban the BNP when they can be so easily marginalised by conducting open debate on immigration - the one issue where the BNP might ever gain ground.

    However, people do need to be able to debate it without being labelled racist *******s if they don't want other nationalities in their neighbourhood. That way the BNP gains more popularity as a party that 'lets people speak their mind'.
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    (Original post by Zebedee)
    This centrist drift is exacerbated by the way that as the coverage is more centrist the people become conditioned to the lack of controversy and tend to vote according to what they feel comfortable with, all resulting in a drift of public views towards the centre where politicians largely play a game of PR and image to seperate themselves.
    What are you on about when you say that people are "conditioned" to vote for what they feel comfortable with? People always vote for the political party they feel most comfortable with.

    The impact of bias in the media will be small compared to people's real experiences - after one and a half decades of rising employment, rising real wages, improvements to government services etc, a majority of people are quite comfortable with the status quo. Even with an unpopular war and not-so-photogenic Gordon Brown, Labour's chances are strong in the next general election. The apolitical majority are largely content, and the conservatives will have to make themselves an approximate clone of new labour to stand a chance.

    As for the BNP? Maybe, if we have proportional representation, Britain suffers from the great depression so severe as to inflict material poverty and malnutrition along with celestial unemployment, Britain is internationally isolated and militarily threatened, and the political establishment deny responsibility for any problems and propose to persist as per normal. So are we going to see them in power? Of course we bloody won't, lest their rise be the least of our worries.
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    I agree with your second point, but this one - not so much. I think the mainstream-aimed PR of being the government that banned the BNP would sorely tempt Labour. Personally I don't think it comes anywhere near outweighing the benefits of keeping the far right vote largely in one place where it can have an eye kept on it, but then I'm not the government.
    I doubt there would be much mainstream support for banning a political party, even the BNP. I wouldn't have thought said move to favour Labour politically, or to be a favoured course of action by the Labour cabinet. But i could easily be wrong.

    Alas, i'm not really in a position to assess the likelihood of the Labour government's banning of the BNP, or the impact of this on Labour's popularity.

    We can only hope they will not force a ban under existing or future legislation.
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    (Original post by Zebedee)
    For all those wanting to ban the BNP from participating in democratic elections you are simply using fascist means to get rid of what you think is a fascist problem. Very hypocritical.

    You cannot in one area of life talk about how great our freedom of speech is and how we should all have the freedom to move around etc (i.e liberty) but at the same time be prepared to deny freedom of speech to others purely because you, yourself do not agree with them.

    Infact it displays tremendous insecurity in the validity of your own position- that you are prepared to sacrifice your own values in order to repress them. Surely if you are right then you will be able to use reason and debate to demonstate you are right?

    Liberty lost is very difficult to regain, something many could do well to remember with authotarianism growing in this country (90 day detentions, "incitement to racial hatred" etc trying to establish "legal" views and "illegal" views).
    This is coming from someone who has liberalism has gone too far....

    :laugh:
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    (Original post by alexjc)
    Can i remind you guys that BNP is a legal political party and holds no racist views or opinions. They are not Nazi's or Facists. They are a far right democratic party that holds anti-immigration policy. Just because they arn't balless liberals doesn't mean they can be shut down for no reason, or called racist just because a load of spoilt smelly hippys dont agree with there policys.

    Btw i don't support BNP because I am more central than that, however if the country fell on hard times I might change my mind. Please dont make claims just because of the bad rep spread by overly liberal idiots.
    The BNP are very much a racist party, check out their policies. And, yes, they are fascist, or at least quasi-fascist.

    In answer to the question: No, they'll never win an election unless this country went completely down the tubes.
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    (Original post by alexjc)
    Can i remind you guys that BNP is a legal political party and holds no racist views or opinions. They are not Nazi's or Facists. They are a far right democratic party that holds anti-immigration policy. Just because they arn't balless liberals doesn't mean they can be shut down for no reason, or called racist just because a load of spoilt smelly hippys dont agree with there policys.

    Btw i don't support BNP because I am more central than that, however if the country fell on hard times I might change my mind. Please dont make claims just because of the bad rep spread by overly liberal idiots.
    That's complete rubbish, frankly. They are extreme-right, fascist and most definitely racist.
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    (Original post by Dionysus)
    They are extreme-right, fascist and most definitely racist.
    None of which is illegal, yet.
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    (Original post by Thud)
    I think it's possible within 20 or 30 years, given the changing ethnic makeup of britain and the increasing reaction of whites to this change, however I don't think it's likely because people don't want fascism, they didn't in the 1930s with Mosley and they won't now.

    I'll be out of here anyway.
    :ditto: agreed
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    (Original post by Renal)
    None of which is illegal, yet.
    Yes it is. They incite racial hatred, which is most definitely illegal. Griffin and Ballard were both convicted of it in 1998.
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    (Original post by Dionysus)
    Yes it is. They incite racial hatred, which is most definitely illegal. Griffin and Ballard were both convicted of it in 1998.
    The party doesn't incite hatred though and so there are no grounds for banning the party.

    I'm not sure about this but aren't there laws preventing a convicted criminal becoming an MP anyway?
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    (Original post by Dionysus)
    Yes it is. They incite racial hatred, which is most definitely illegal. Griffin and Ballard were both convicted of it in 1998.
    Thankfully the justice system hasn't quite caught up with you in detecting and prosecuting thought crime. :rolleyes:
 
 
 
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