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Raising the aspirations and achievements of ethnic minorities watch

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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    It looks like the committee have failed to identify a cause for the disparity and are trying to solve the problem by throwing money at it. There's obivously nothing inate about black kids and if the problem was a lack of funding to the schools with black children then that would be apparent and easily fixed.

    There must be one or more other factors and it doesn't seem like they have identified them. And until they do they will not solve the problem and will simply be wasting money.
    Good point. Many current Government schemes seem to operate down similar blind alleyways wherby they spot a cause/need/potential and automatically ask questions. Asking questions at an issue (any issue) which is essentially multifaceted and constructed not by a single action but by the total social-whole of a society is a clear road to coming to the wrong solutions and the wrong answers. Whilst I applaud the Government for at least recognising that elements of society (in this case black boys) are in need of support, they should also realise that boys from across the spectrum of races, classes and communities require help.

    Pioneering (and now established) sociological theory suggested that what constitutes a concept of society, such as classification, is essentially a personal construct anyway; by singling out black boys and aiming a report at them, they are essentially building a problem, with its associated nomenclature, whilst trying to tackle it at the same time which strikes me as a paradox. A much more in depth, yet holistic, approach needs to be taken in raising societies aspirations and achievements. Society will never function well if it is treated as a collection of un-connected parts, but would function (if not well, then certainly better) if treated as the sum of its parts, a total entity.

    I didn't quite get this part of the report;

    (Original post by REACH Report)
    this recommendation calls for stronger parent-teacher relationships, the creation of parent-centred learning workshops and the encouragement of more Black parents to become school governors, teaching assistants and teachers.
    The "encouragment of more Black parents to become school governers" makes a massive value judgement that it is down to race that they decide not to get involved. Is there any suggestion, any empirical data, to suggest this is actually so? This report notices rightly that there are racial, minority and community issues behind general social 'ills', yet I believe this process by REACH is slightly to arbitrary, slightly too simple. It seems to me very unfair on the Black community, making wide value judgements.
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    (Original post by SolInvictus)
    I have a better, cheaper and less fluffy idea. Show them a video of Ali G, and tell them thats how stupid they are when they act the way they do. For that matter show it to all the ghetto wannabees, blacks, asians and whites, to inform them of how stupid they look.
    exactly- because that is exactly how all ethnic minorites act isn't it. That is the reason that they are under represented in powerful/successful roles in society; they act like ali G (even though the character was lampooning steve westwood- a white radio presenter). Your above post was very insightful:rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Renal)
    You can't say that mate, it goes against socialism - black children must do as well as white children becuase everyone must be equal.

    your standard reply in getting tiresome....
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    (Original post by psychic_satori)
    Wouldn't it be a good thing to check out how to improve the achievements of all low-achievers, rather than single out a group by race?

    Many studies show that people are more prone to do poorly when they are expected to fail. So, saying "We're going to study why black boys are such low achievers" is only going to knock back the perception of black boys that they can do well academically.
    Agreed. Sociologists have long been studying the (detrimental in this case) effects of the self-fufilling prophecy theory.

    One example that springs to mind is a classroom of 5-6 year olds who are arbitrarily split into two groups for the sake of the experiment.Both groups were- roughly of course- equally intelligent. One group was treated as if they were very smart and of a superior intelligence to the other group. They were told, and it was implied, that they were expected to do well in exams/progress. The other group were, in comparison, largely ignored by the teacher and felt to feel less intelligent.

    At the end of the year the group who were told that they were smart improved in their school work and I.Q. tests. The other group did not improve, some of them were scored worse than at the begining of the trial.

    The self-fufilling prophecy theory has many more examples (i cannot off the top of my head remember the resarcher of this particular study but i will find it later and post it on this thread)
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    (Original post by [email protected])
    exactly- because that is exactly how all ethnic minorites act isn't it.
    You'll notice he mentioned whites too... last time I checked, they were still the ethnic majority.

    And yes, it is not fiction that many black youngsters are attracted to the 'gang' culture.
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    (Original post by [email protected])
    exactly- because that is exactly how all ethnic minorites act isn't it. That is the reason that they are under represented in powerful/successful roles in society; they act like ali G (even though the character was lampooning steve westwood- a white radio presenter). Your above post was very insightful:rolleyes:
    Well as an asian growing up in the US, that was my first impression of the south asian youth of Britain.....

    The fact is that lots of young people, white or black or whatever, act like stupid ghetto wannabees and set themselves up for failure because they embrace a culture that brings little in the way of success.
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    Perhaps we should focus on what is causing this, as well as what can be done to change it. Cure and vaccination. No point lingering in the present...
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    anyone know why the discrepency at HE level.
    despite candidates getting the grades to make it to uni

    http://www.thes.co.uk/current_editio...ory_id=2038105
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    As the article suggests, institutional racism.
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    All I can say on the matter is that it's true there is a real problem with people who have great ability not fulfilling their potential. At the same time, we have to be careful not to patronise people. I have some very high achieving black friends, currently studying for good degrees at top Unis.
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    (Original post by Dionysus)
    All I can say on the matter is that it's true there is a real problem with people who have great ability not fulfilling their potential. At the same time, we have to be careful not to patronise people. I have some very high achieving black friends, currently studying for good degrees at top Unis.
    How do you feel or what makes you think that people are being patronised?
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    (Original post by hermaphrodite)
    How do you feel or what makes you think that people are being patronised?
    Just the idea of labelling it as 'black boys underachieve'. It's such a sweeping assessment and regularly untrue. That said, I agree that the statistics do show a general trend. That said, I should point out that the lowest achieving group is actually low income white boys.
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    (Original post by Dionysus)
    Just the idea of labelling it as 'black boys underachieve'. It's such a sweeping assessment and regularly untrue. That said, I agree that the statistics do show a general trend. That said, I should point out that the lowest achieving group is actually low income white boys.
    I agree. Social issues need to be considered holistically as well as specifically; the 'labelling' (as you call it) makes a massive value judgement and is fundamentally unfair.
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    With all due respect, that article is relatively useless. Until someone controls (in their stats) for income they're not going to come to any useful conclusion about the influence of ethnicity on HE achievement.

    I'm surprised nobody noticed the absurdity of positing that 'ethnic minorities under-achieve in HE' -> 'ethnic minorities often have problems with funding, commuting, family etc, due to their relatively low-income position in society, that impact upon their performance and the quality of their experience' -> 'therefore it must be institutional racism'.
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    Isn't it mainly black caribbean boys who are underacheiving? Us girls were doing alright last time i checked.

    Schools can play a part but attitudes of parents and the community also needs to change. Having a black teacher at secondary school was always a novelty, a bit like having a supply teacher that wasn't from australia.

    I was fortunate to have very good role models from an early age. And i don't mean celebrities. My primary school teacher is a jamaican woman who cared passionately about all of her students, and i was fortunate to be taught by her for four years. She went beyond the call of duty and really really pushed me. I kept in touch with her once i went to secondary school and she kept an eye on my progess. Even now i'm about to go into my fourth year at university and she is still around providing her support. I bumped into a friend from primary school yesterday and we both remarked on how much of a difference she made to our lives. But then we were the lucky ones. Many of my friends went on to fit the image portrayed by the media unfortunately.

    Role models aren't enough, but its a start. I was teased at secondary school because these celebrities weren't the people i idolised :rolleyes:. Everything i was bullied at school about came down to the fact that i wasn't "black enough". Meaning i didn't want to bully people and study music technology.

    I'm not sure what the answer is to be honest.
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    (Original post by Sarky)
    Isn't it mainly black caribbean boys who are underacheiving? Us girls were doing alright last time i checked.

    Schools can play a part but attitudes of parents and the community also needs to change. Having a black teacher at secondary school was always a novelty, a bit like having a supply teacher that wasn't from australia.

    I was fortunate to have very good role models from an early age. And i don't mean celebrities. My primary school teacher is a jamaican woman who cared passionately about all of her students, and i was fortunate to be taught by her for four years. She went beyond the call of duty and really really pushed me. I kept in touch with her once i went to secondary school and she kept an eye on my progess. Even now i'm about to go into my fourth year at university and she is still around providing her support. I bumped into a friend from primary school yesterday and we both remarked on how much of a difference she made to our lives. But then we were the lucky ones. Many of my friends went on to fit the image portrayed by the media unfortunately.

    Role models aren't enough, but its a start. I was teased at secondary school because these celebrities weren't the people i idolised :rolleyes:. Everything i was bullied at school about came down to the fact that i wasn't "black enough". Meaning i didn't want to bully people and study music technology.

    I'm not sure what the answer is to be honest.
    Good teachers (not just 'good' in the proffesional sense but teachers who, as you said, go beyond the call of duty) and schools are of substantial importance to young people, no matter what their background. Being taught by someone who obviously cares and has invested more than just their 9-5 to you makes a massive difference.
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    (Original post by Libertin du Nord)
    You'll notice he mentioned whites too... last time I checked, they were still the ethnic majority.

    And yes, it is not fiction that many black youngsters are attracted to the 'gang' culture.
    'many black black youngsters are attracted to the gang culture''

    god where do i even start lol. OK:

    where do you get this impression from? Where you live? T.v.? 'Statistics'? Have you took into account the many black people spread all over the world, throughout different cultures and classes? Or just your very narrow (i can only assume until proven wrong) expereince?

    When you say 'gang culture' are you sure it's an accuracy? I know from experience that an inproportoinate amount of youg black boys are indeed attracted to this but people often confuse a street/urban sub-culture with this so called gang culture. If you see a kid with his trousers hanging from his ass and whose hat is almost covering his eyes, listening to fifty cent on his phone one usually associates him to this so called 'gang culture' as he fits the steroetype. I'm aware that some gangsters dress the same and talk with the same argot and have a similiar swagger but the distinction between the two exists. One may be a bit rude and perhaps socially deviant in some cases but the other is a member of a gang that participates in serious criminal activity. Only a small minority in this youth subculture are actually gangsters. The rest are just the same as other youth subcultures (i.e. goths, emos, grungers, indie kids etc) in the sense that they all have an informal value system and type of act/look to keep up. Nearly evey one of these kids will grow up to be fully integrated into mainstream social culture with age (as did the mods, rockers, hippies, punks etc). Its just a phase most adolescents tend to go through.

    Most black youngsters are not gangsters, most black youngsters do not take part in serious criminal activity (a lot of urban black, working class kids may listen to gangster rap but so do a lot of white kids and middle class kids and even adults).

    Show me a stat that shows otherwise....
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    (Original post by SolInvictus)
    Well as an asian growing up in the US, that was my first impression of the south asian youth of Britain.....

    The fact is that lots of young people, white or black or whatever, act like stupid ghetto wannabees and set themselves up for failure because they embrace a culture that brings little in the way of success.
    I agree but only to a point. A ghetto acting youth is unlikely to get past job interviews. Sure.

    However most ethnic minority youths are not ghetto acting (whatever their ethnicity). A small but highly visible (streets and media) faction are. Even this faction will eventually grow out of this sub-culture and fully integrate into mainstream culture. How many middle aged bad-boys/grungers/goths can you rember meeting? This isn't to say that they were never any of these things in their youth.

    The under-representation of highly successful ethnic minorities is a sympton of a much less superficial problem.
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    (Original post by Dionysus)
    Just the idea of labelling it as 'black boys underachieve'. It's such a sweeping assessment and regularly untrue. That said, I agree that the statistics do show a general trend. That said, I should point out that the lowest achieving group is actually low income white boys.
    agreed.
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    (Original post by Sarky)
    Isn't it mainly black caribbean boys who are underacheiving? Us girls were doing alright last time i checked.

    Schools can play a part but attitudes of parents and the community also needs to change. Having a black teacher at secondary school was always a novelty, a bit like having a supply teacher that wasn't from australia.

    I was fortunate to have very good role models from an early age. And i don't mean celebrities. My primary school teacher is a jamaican woman who cared passionately about all of her students, and i was fortunate to be taught by her for four years. She went beyond the call of duty and really really pushed me. I kept in touch with her once i went to secondary school and she kept an eye on my progess. Even now i'm about to go into my fourth year at university and she is still around providing her support. I bumped into a friend from primary school yesterday and we both remarked on how much of a difference she made to our lives. But then we were the lucky ones. Many of my friends went on to fit the image portrayed by the media unfortunately.

    Role models aren't enough, but its a start. I was teased at secondary school because these celebrities weren't the people i idolised :rolleyes:. Everything i was bullied at school about came down to the fact that i wasn't "black enough". Meaning i didn't want to bully people and study music technology.

    I'm not sure what the answer is to be honest.
    Yeah i agree with your point about caring teachers, i've had a similar experience throughout my schooling with some great teachers who really care and go the extra mile.It does motivate you and make you feel that you shouldn't settle for anything less than the best grades- because teachers, as your parents and more importantly, yourself, also believe that you shouldn't which is evident through their expectations and time spent helping you succeed. More teachers like thisn are needed; who genuinely care and encourage, don't take any crap yet can also be sensitive to any problems are what is needed. Whether these teachers are black is not the important thing imo (although an increase in them, especially from the same type of working class backgrounds, would be nice as it reinforces a postive self image to young black kids).

    However what do you mean that you were bullied because you were not black eneogh, because you didn't bully people or study music? Do you think that is what most young black people do then? Bully others? Are yo really trying to tell us that bullying ppl was a black peer group pre-requisite? I doubt it somehow. Also, the fact you didn't study music was also a like factor? If you're being ironic then just think about what you post next time please because this particular part of your post only reinforces the negative attitude ignorant people have of black people.
 
 
 
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