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    He only one coz Neil Kinnock was ****e. 12 seat majority is hardly anything to shout about.
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    (Original post by Socrates)
    He only one coz Neil Kinnock was ****e. 12 seat majority is hardly anything to shout about.
    I think it was 21. And think about it, if Labour lose 20 seats at the next election, that's what they would have.
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    (Original post by empfrench)
    I think it was 21. And think about it, if Labour lose 20 seats at the next election, that's what they would have.
    Labour have 66 right now though :confused:
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    Plus the fact that it is highly unlikely that Labour will lose any seats at all. An election right now would probably be a landslide victory.
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    right - so labour have, say 366, and the opposition parties have 300 = majority of 66. Labour lose 20 seats = labour 346, opposition 320 = labour majority of 26. Effectively, if you lose 1 seat, your majority is cut by 2.
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    Ultimately the Conservatives are still paying the price for the biggest act of political suicide in modern British politics: getting rid of Maggie. I realise that people on TSR both love her and hate her, but I would think and hope that most people could agree that it certainly did not help the Tories by getting rid of her (especially the way in which she was removed) - it made the party look internally divided and their MP's out for themselves and more concerned about themselves than what the country wanted (Maggie as their PM). She won and kept the working class votes necessary to get and keep the Tories in power, and when she was replaced by the dull Major who lectured down at people ('back to basics') rather than talking optimistically about people's aspirations (which is what Thatcher did much of the time, notably with the 'right to buy'), I can understand why so many people turned their backs on the Tories. Ultimately, Maggie looked and acted like a born winner and leader, Major looked and acted like David Brent.
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    (Original post by Greyhound02)
    Ultimately the Conservatives are still paying the price for the biggest act of political suicide in modern British politics: getting rid of Maggie.
    They really had no choice did they...
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    if you think about it though, the tories under major had egineered quite a nice little economic base which brown essentially enjoyed. Brown has probably had THE easiest ride as a chancellor ever. Im not detracting from the fact he was competant, but he had very few crises to deal with, the global economy has essentially done from strength to strength since the late 90's.

    the tories get berated for ****ing things up when there was a major shift in the nature of our economy. but there needed to be, it was a major crisis facing most industural economies who were losing competativeness. If you go back, Labour couldnt handle the depression in 29 and lost an awful lot of credibility, and Macdonald ended up leaving and joining the national government in the 30's. So there's plenty of shame to dish around if we want to get into a ****ging match about how governments performed in unprecedented crises.
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    His work was incomplete sadly but he was a continuer of neo-conservative policy and he would of completed the reforms Thatcher desired if he had won in 1997, the country would be better than it is now under the statists of New Labour.
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    (Original post by Socrates)
    They really had no choice did they...
    Go on.....
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    Maggie was past her sell by date. Eleven years is a long time in politics. The mistake they made was replacing her with Major instead of someone half competent.
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    (Original post by Socrates)
    The mistake they made was replacing her with Major instead of someone half competent.
    True. I'm no Conservative, but I would have preferred it if Heseltine won the leadership contest in 1990 and became PM. Although his pro-European ideals would have rankled with many within the party...
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    I thought Ken Clarke would have been a decent choice too...
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    (Original post by Socrates)
    Maggie was past her sell by date. Eleven years is a long time in politics. The mistake they made was replacing her with Major instead of someone half competent.
    I'm not sure she was quite past her sell by date in 1990, although there was obviously a backlash from the poll tax, she could have carried on, much like Blair could probably have continued up to 2010 or so were it not for the moody Scot next door. Let's be honest, if the public weren't going to kick Blair out for Iraq, it seems unlikely Thatcher would have been booted out for anything she did. To me, the symbolism of replacing Thatcher because of internal squabbles and personality clashes symbolised an arrogance within the Conservative party that they STILL haven't shaken off: I think there's an impression deep within the psyche of the electorate that the Conservatives think they have some natural right to govern, and that even 10 years of New Labour is simply a 'disequilibrium' that will sort itself out. After Thatcher left, the Tories didn't seem hungry anymore.

    Replacing her with Major was definitely a serious error - how could you possibly follow a dynamic, confident, energetic leader by a grey, dull, middle manager?
 
 
 
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