intellectual snobbery? Watch

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onthejubileeline
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#21
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#21
Find like-minded people. Case closed.

Us normal mortal folks will just be mean to you, sorry.
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Howells
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#22
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(Original post by butterfly_girl_5)
Does anyone find they are accused of this/worry they are guilty of this/find this widespread in the 'oxbridge' culture?

I notice with a lot of my friends that even though we share a genuine interest in reading books & literature, when I talk about what I would call 'academic' like using words like intertextuality or narrative structure to talk about a book I like they zone out. and people think im a geek for liking reading books about critical theory.
My girlfriend reads books on critical theory and I love her for it - I love how we can discuss books and how I don't have to pretend I didn't spend my weekend reading
Never apologise for who you are! People would say I'm snobbish and judgemental though I'm not that bad, but I just ignore them
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butterfly_girl_5
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#23
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#23
(Original post by kevster)
butterfly girl, absolutely absurd question with no relevance but what newspaper do you read?
lol
guardian/ le monde/ die zeit (bc im learning french & german and if I had to pick a side id call myself left-wing)

why?
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Demoskratos7
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#24
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#24
(Original post by Aconite)
Personally, I think you do sound a bit self-congratulatory. Yes, you're probably very intelligent and whatnot, but you seem a bit keen to rub it in people's faces. The more you learn, the more you ought to realise you DON'T know.
Sorry Aconite, how was that self-congratulatory? The point I was making was merely that a good education should teach you realise the extent of your self-ignorance.
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butterfly_girl_5
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Aconite)
This.

Personally, I think you do sound a bit self-congratulatory. Yes, you're probably very intelligent and whatnot, but you seem a bit keen to rub it in people's faces. The more you learn, the more you ought to realise you DON'T know.
ok- well thankyou- this response is really helpful
could you maybe tell me what gave you this impression?
im prepared to believe youre absolutely right
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Aconite
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(Original post by Demoskratos7)
Sorry Aconite, how was that self-congratulatory? The point I was making was merely that a good education should teach you realise the extent of your self-ignorance.
Not you, silly! I meant the OP.

I picked out your post as an example of good sense.
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nexttime
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(Original post by butterfly_girl_5)
I know I cant and shouldnt do anything- but I am interested and concerned with this- partly because if my friends dismiss me as clever theres a problem in our friendship and its possible I am being arrogant without realising it- or as you say- it could be them- but they might equally be insecure for good reason (like me friend who's dislexic)
hmm, that is tough, but decent friends should see who you are, and focus on the meaning of what you say over how its phrased. generally, most people tend to speak like their friends anyway though - i certainly do, and will only roll out the more articulate words when appropriate (generally (relatively) intellectual arguments/discussions when they arise).

but is this issue about how you/one speaks, or perceived arrogance based on academics?
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chad_ch
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#28
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#28
if you were truly clever you'd be able to get your points across without using long words and complex syntax.
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Demoskratos7
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(Original post by Aconite)
Not you, silly! I meant the OP.

I picked out your post as an example of good sense.
Sorry Aconite! I am being stupid, as per usual.
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chad_ch
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#30
(Original post by onthejubileeline)
Find like-minded people. Case closed.

Us normal mortal folks will just be mean to you, sorry.
true say!
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Aconite
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#31
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(Original post by butterfly_girl_5)
ok- well thankyou- this response is really helpful
could you maybe tell me what gave you this impression?
im prepared to believe youre absolutely right
The fact that you've created this thread at all, really. It's a bit of an indication that you're hung up about the issue, and by proxy, a bit obsessed with your own intellect.

I don't mind saying now that I've been offered a place at Oxford for English and I've always been seen as "academic", but I don't really give it that much thought, and I've never had anybody react badly to me or call me "snobbish".

I don't necessarily think you need to play things down, but people on the whole are not needlessly unkind, and if it's got to the point where you're getting derision about academia, chances are you're being pretentious or shoving your knowledge in others' faces.
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evil groove
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#32
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I think it's because a lot of people think, rightly or wrongly, that poetry and the like should be confined to the status of one's hobby, as opposed to one's vocation :dontknow:
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butterfly_girl_5
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#33
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#33
(Original post by Demoskratos7)
Sorry Aconite, how was that self-congratulatory? The point I was making was merely that a good education should teach you realise the extent of your self-ignorance.
O- I thought he was using your post to tell me Im self- congratulatory
wasnt very clear
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Davetherave
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#34
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everybody inflates everything they do...athletes, academics, politicians, plumbers, you name it, that's just the way it is...
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butterfly_girl_5
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#35
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#35
(Original post by nexttime)
hmm, that is tough, but decent friends should see who you are, and focus on the meaning of what you say over how its phrased. generally, most people tend to speak like their friends anyway though - i certainly do, and will only roll out the more articulate words when appropriate (generally (relatively) intellectual arguments/discussions when they arise).

but is this issue about how you/one speaks, or perceived arrogance based on academics?
its not an issue about how I speak or what I do
its an issue of whether there is a tendency for all but particularly oxbridge academics and specifically me- are in fact guilty of being arrogant/ self congratulatory/ self- satisfied/ pretencious/ insincere- the extent to which that is the case, or the extent to which 'other' people- ie those who are often vey interested in culture, literature, art, political debate ect are hostile or dismissive of what they perceive to be arrogance/snobbery ect
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butterfly_girl_5
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#36
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#36
(Original post by chad_ch)
if you were truly clever you'd be able to get your points across without using long words and complex syntax.
What if what you want to say is best expressed with complex syntax or the exact word that fits what you want to say happens to be long?
I think theres a difference between people deliberately trying to use what you said, and people who are only interested in trying to give accurate expression to their ideas or feelings
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LearningMath
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#37
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(Original post by butterfly_girl_5)
Does anyone find they are accused of this/worry they are guilty of this/find this widespread in the 'oxbridge' culture?

I notice with a lot of my friends that even though we share a genuine interest in reading books & literature, when I talk about what I would call 'academic' like using words like intertextuality or narrative structure to talk about a book I like they zone out. and people think im a geek for liking reading books about critical theory

thats fine with me, but what I find difficult is how its a no-go area to say 'youre not interested in academic thinking or looking at or reading literature in an academic way.' even though a lot of people I talk to are dismissive of books or poetry all together because they assume theyre not clever enough or they accuse it of not having an exciting plot/not being written in a way they can understand. my experience of a lot of people my age (18) and young people is they dont try to understand this phenomenon called 'academia' but then form a rather hostile attitude to 'academics' and talk about 'clever' and 'not clever' people in terms of 'us' and 'them'

I have to say, having grown up in oxford I do find something rather self satisfied in academics and self-congratulatoriness (if thats a word) w regards to peoples own intelligence or academic achievement. I worry that I am becoming prone to this sort of snobbery as Ive developped my intellectual abilities- I want to be interested in academia and using critical awareness when reading for its own sake, not to feel selg-important

what do people think?
The sad thing is, its being going on so long. My uncle was taking a Phd in Literature at oxford, about... 30ish years ago, he was on track to pass with flying colours, but dropped out in disgust at the atmosphere of the entire place. Having never been to Oxford im in no position to judge, but from others i can tell that snobbery still exists.
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Lothar Warlock
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#38
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#38
(Original post by jnm2324)
God that was boring.
You just wasted 2 seconds of my life with that utterly pointless and irrelevant statement. :cool:

To the OP: I understand what you're trying to convey...
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butterfly_girl_5
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#39
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#39
(Original post by Aconite)
The fact that you've created this thread at all, really. It's a bit of an indication that you're hung up about the issue, and by proxy, a bit obsessed with your own intellect.

I don't mind saying now that I've been offered a place at Oxford for English and I've always been seen as "academic", but I don't really give it that much thought, and I've never had anybody react badly to me or call me "snobbish".

I don't necessarily think you need to play things down, but people on the whole are not needlessly unkind, and if it's got to the point where you're getting derision about academia, chances are you're being pretentious or shoving your knowledge in others' faces.
well I agree- Im am definitely guilty of over-analysing things like this- but whether or not im obsessed with my own intellect I think I am genuinely concerned that because I am often quite arrogant without realising it (which I am very ashamed about) I might be making my friends feel stupid or be isolating myself from other people

I agree that what youre saying about me could be (and probably is to a certain extent) true, I think the fact that you have always been considered academic makes you very different from me- I was always intelligent but I was never considered clever until I put my mind to working hard- and ive been comitted to developping what intellect I have because its important to me, and Im still not en par with friends of mine who are 'academic' (often the children of professors or academics at oxford). So I think I have some reason to consider the nature of my own cleverness- whether or not I really have 'become academic' or whether I am as you said, pretencious and arrogant.

I think maybe the reason im coming across as over self-conscious is because I dont want to look back on this period of my life and say 'god I was a pretencious ****'- I have to try to be sincere and sensitive to others if Im not already (as maybe you are naturally)

but I appreciate your thoughts- you are at least answering my question
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kevster
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#40
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#40
(Original post by butterfly_girl_5)
lol
guardian/ le monde/ die zeit (bc im learning french & german and if I had to pick a side id call myself left-wing)
lol the guardian, my guess was correct then. Nowadays it really is the only decent paper, its comment and debate section is fabulous.

So, without trying to read all the comments are you trying to say that you like trying to be intellectual and your friends don't. Whats the crux of the issue without going into too much depth.
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