2nd Bachelors in completely different subject Watch

faber niger
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#21
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(Original post by (-1)^(1/2))
I'm inclined to say that even a 2.1 is insufficient for an 'external' candidate (even from Cambridge!)... But perhaps the 'first class' rule only applies for those considering graduate school.
Well, I know that's not the case. I recently talked to the graduate Classics admissions tutor at Oxford, about the possibility of doing postgraduate work at Oxford (and the likelihood of being able to with an undergraduate degree from Manchester) -- and I assume that if they would accept you for postgraduate study, then they would also for undergraduate. He told me that a degree from Manchester will be rated more highly than I myself had suspected, and that if I am to get a first there 'will be no reason at why you will not be accepted'; if I get a 2.1, he said, there is as much chance of acceptance as not.
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faber niger
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(Original post by titanlux)
Agreed a 2.2 in maths isn't worth squat but are my Alevel scores (05) still valid? I think in my favour i'm near native in the two languages i'm going in for but i have a lot of work on literature to do to :rolleyes: Won't I be evaluated though on the same basis as all over candidates?

I've emailed the depts so will hopefully see a result tomorrow... if not i'll phone up
Well, they definitely will consider your degree; how much weight they attach thereto is another question. Your A-Levels were 3 years ago, and so it's natural that they won't be considered with as much weight as people who have just taken them. You could, though, emphasise the fact that it is a Maths degree, and thus is not greatly indicative of your language skill. Have you done any formal language study recently or any activities that are in any way related to your intended course?

See what they say in the e-mail anyway. I hope it goes well for you.
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epitome
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Two things (not entirely relevant to the OP, but which have been brought up in this discussion):

1. Don't assume too much about institutional snobberies at graduate level. Plenty of the postgrads and fellows/dons/profs at both Oxbridge unis are from elsewhere, and the 'this institution is better than that institution' matters less at postgrad level. If someone's proved themselves at university, and then write a decent research proposal & get good references, they stand as good a chance as anyone. Great academics come out of all kinds of institutions, just as great students can come out of all kinds of schools.

2. The Oxford-Cambridge rivalry is not as real as people outside the institutions seem to think it is. Both work towards exactly the same ends, and are strongly collaborative. The rivalry is historic (but now mostly non-existant, at least in the way so many people seem to think), and mostly limited to The Boat Race. Of course we're competitive, but not to one another''s detriment. The whole point of real, honest competition is to increase the abilities and standing of BOTH sides, not just one. Oxbridge realises this. Strangely enough, they're not stupid. Loads of people swap from one institution to another, both in their education and later employment. These universities are the very best in many ways: of course they want the best students, and of course they're very happy to take students/staff who have attended/worked at the 'rival' institution. It's ridiculous to believe otherwise.

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, by the way -- just observations.
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faber niger
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(Original post by epitome)
Two things (not entirely relevant to the OP, but which have been brought up in this discussion):

1. Don't assume too much about institutional snobberies at graduate level. Plenty of the postgrads and fellows/dons/profs at both Oxbridge unis are from elsewhere, and the 'this institution is better than that institution' matters less at postgrad level. If someone's proved themselves at university, and then write a decent research proposal & get good references, they stand as good a chance as anyone. Great academics come out of all kinds of institutions, just as great students can come out of all kinds of schools.

2. The Oxford-Cambridge rivalry is not as real as people outside the institutions seem to think it is. Both work towards exactly the same ends, and are strongly collaborative. The rivalry is historic (but now mostly non-existant, at least in the way so many people seem to think), and mostly limited to The Boat Race. Of course we're competitive, but not to one another''s detriment. The whole point of real, honest competition is to increase the abilities and standing of BOTH sides, not just one. Oxbridge realises this. Strangely enough, they're not stupid. Loads of people swap from one institution to another, both in their education and later employment. These universities are the very best in many ways: of course they want the best students, and of course they're very happy to take students/staff who have attended/worked at the 'rival' institution. It's ridiculous to believe otherwise.

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, by the way -- just observations.
I agree with everything you said. Except I think that your definition of competition (in general, not necessarily applied to Oxbridge) is 'fluffier' than my own -- and I'm supposed to be a bleeding-heart liberal! :p:
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epitome
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(Original post by jismith1989)
I agree with everything you said. Except I think that your definition of competition (in general, not necessarily applied to Oxbridge) is 'fluffier' than my own -- and I'm supposed to be a bleeding-heart liberal!
If by "fluffy" you mean 'nice'...yes. Of course, I still want to kick ass; but I want to kick successful ass, not failing ass! That is to say, my kind of competition (and that of the institutions, as well as that of most sportspeople...really, any kind of honest competitor), is one where all parties do very well, by increasing their own abilities through the competition. I'm openly competitive with certain of my friends -- we all want to beat one another, but we also want each other to do really well. Competition's boring if you just poison the opponent, or crowbar their kneecaps. Healthy competition enhances everyone's performance. Oxbridge knows this.

I'm hardly bleeding-heart. But I am reasonably nice. :p:
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titanlux
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I'm worried that a II.ii will handicap me though especially when everything asks for a 'good first degree' :s:
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faber niger
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(Original post by titanlux)
I'm worried that a II.ii will handicap me though especially when everything asks for a 'good first degree' :s:
It may do, I have to be honest. But you have the fact that it is from Cambridge on your side, no one accepts that all university degrees are equivalent in standard. Also, the fact that your new degree is completely different could help. Though I think you may have to accept that a university other than Oxford may have to be an option for you; there are some very good universities that are not Oxford or Cambridge.
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The_Lonely_Goatherd
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#28
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(Original post by titanlux)
I'm worried that a II.ii will handicap me though especially when everything asks for a 'good first degree' :s:
It's generally a high 2:1 that is asked for rather than a First, as far as I know. You'll never know unless you e-mail the admissions person and ask.

I think the 2:1 rule applies if you want to do a postgraduate course. I'm not sure the same applies to you, because you want to do a second undergraduate course. Though I may be wrong.

Anyway, if you're seriously interested, then e-mail and ask
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Derek_the_Sheep
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(Original post by titanlux)
Agreed a 2.2 in maths isn't worth squat but are my Alevel scores (05) still valid? I think in my favour i'm near native in the two languages i'm going in for but i have a lot of work on literature to do to. Won't I be evaluated though on the same basis as all over candidates?
Yup, same basis - that's what they say.

(Original post by titanlux)
I've emailed the depts so will hopefully see a result tomorrow... if not i'll phone up
Good luck - let us know how it goes.

DtS
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titanlux
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Cool, thanks everyone. I'll phone them tomorrow and get the low down
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thomasjtl
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If you're near native in both languages, why exactly do you feel the need to do a language degree? Your OP seemed to indicate that you saw it as a means to an end in getting a job- would you not be better off just spending a few months in said country getting your language skills up to scratch?
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titanlux
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#32
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A very good source has said that I would be less employable at graduate level as I would need to be paid more at say 25 than a guy with 1st degree at 21. Hence falling between two stools. what do yo think?

Alternatively I can do a MSc+PhD and then still apply for similar job. The same source tells me that I might be less employable a priori with a phd and no experience at 26 than a fresh graduate but then could leap-frog them in terms of salary after a few years...

I'm confused as right now I don't think my heart's in a phd

What does anyone think of that appraisal? The upshot of the advice is to do a masters+phd for the sake of it. hmpf :s
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faber niger
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Did you get a reply from Oxford?
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titanlux
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#34
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(Original post by jismith1989)
Did you get a reply from Oxford?
yeah i've just got off the phone from them and a 2.1 was recommended but since i wanted to do a completely different subject it was still ok to apply with a 2.2. Now this was a general admissions secretary telling me this info but i have some mitigating circumstances for the 2.2 which she said i should send straight to the college. Damn these secretaries are always so nice, friendly and helpful... i wish the whole process was like that
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faber niger
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(Original post by titanlux)
yeah i've just got off the phone from them and a 2.1 was recommended but since i wanted to do a completely different subject it was still ok to apply with a 2.2. Now this was a general admissions secretary telling me this info but i have some mitigating circumstances for the 2.2 which she said i should send straight to the college. Damn these secretaries are always so nice, friendly and helpful... i wish the whole process was like that
Ah, that's good. Mitigating circumstances are always helpful. :p:
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titanlux
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(Original post by jismith1989)
Ah, that's good. Mitigating circumstances are always helpful. :p:
*chuckles* tbh they're not the type which an admissions tutor will like to see, though they do explain the disappointing classification:p:
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llys
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Titanlux, first of all good luck :yy:, second, I just thought, if you're near fluent in languages (and don't care about literature/history or such so much that you would want to do them for three years) maybe you could directly do an MA in languages or translation? (Not at Oxford obviously but maybe at some other places - you could probably apply in parallel as a backup.) AFAIK arts MAs don't always require an arts BA... and that way you would.. erm beat two flies with one stick? Do you do that sort of thing over there? :p:

Another edit: here's an example:
MA Arabic Literature (SOAS)
This new taught-Masters degree offers a deep insight into the Arab world through its literatures. It is an advanced programme designed for students with a good first degree in Arabic or with a good university degree who also know Arabic. The fundamental objective is to make Arabic culture and literature accessible to a wider body of postgraduate students and to provide them with training in the study of literature. Students develop an advanced understanding of Arabic literature and gain detailed knowledge of its past and present. The syllabus combines the literary approaches of comparative literature with in-depth study of Arabic literature. Students have the opportunity to become familiar with, among other things, literary theory, translation techniques, the sociology of literature, the social and political dimensions of modern Arabic literature, and different genres and themes of classical, medieval and modern Arabic literature.
Of course SOAS isn't Oxbridge but maybe it's something you'd like to consider (not SOAS especially but the possibility of doing a taught MA in a language-related subject, not at Oxbridge).

You could also do an MA in something and in parallel get a DPSI from the Institute of Linguists; with that in hand you could also (probably quite easily?) gain some work experience and subject understanding (law or local government).
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artemis84
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Could anyone outline the differences in fees for somebody taking a 2nd undergraduate degree?

I'm thinking of doing a 2 year BSc at Cambridge in chemical engineering following my MChem at Oxford. All I really know at the moment is that I won't get any student loan for a 2nd undergraduate degree. However will it actually cost me more money than it already is doing now, as I'm vaguely aware that the government pays for part of your 1st degree that they won't do for your 2nd ?
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thomasjtl
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each year you'll have to pay £3k odd tuition fees and the college fees (£4-5K) up front and won't be able to get a tuition fee loan to cover them. You are still eligible for a maintence loan, but not a maintence grant, however.
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Angelil
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(Original post by (-1)^(1/2))
I'm inclined to say that even a 2.1 is insufficient for an 'external' candidate (even from Cambridge!)... But perhaps the 'first class' rule only applies for those considering graduate school.
Not even sure that there is a 'first class' rule for grad school, seeing as I got in with a 2.1...

As for relevance to the OP in terms of a second BA, I think all the good stuff has already been said. You will really have to prove your relevant experience and knowledge in terms of languages in order to compete with A Level students who will have studied languages more recently.
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