is politics only for the upper classes Watch

faber niger
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Cognito)
Well before that if you consider Tyler and the Peasant's revolt
Well, yes. And before that if you consider Athenian democracy. :p:
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Ed.
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#22
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(Original post by Demoskratos7)
I'd go far as to say that I wouldn't vote for a politician if they had a politics degree.
I don't know, that may never be necessary..

I don't really get a politics degree, is it political history ? political theory ? I don't get what you would do for 3 years. No better a preparation for politics than any good humanities degree.
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billyboymccoy
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#23
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a lot of old union people in the labour party. But they seem to be dieing out a bit now.
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gizmoleeds
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#24
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#24
(Original post by jazzyjelly)
To be a politician, must you be privately educated?
No. According to a quick google, around a third of MPs are privately educated. That's a lot more than the population as a whole but by no means a necessity.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4514156.stm
(Original post by jazzyjelly)
and do those who take degrees in politics end up being politicians, what other careers are available to them?
As someone doing politics I have to say that a clear majority of the people on my course have no intention of ever becoming politicians. Common career options related to the degree would include working for a government department as a civil servant, working for a non-governmental organization, working for an international organization or working as a journalist. And many I'm sure will enter careers unrelated to their degree - just like most History or English graduates probably will.
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faber niger
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#25
(Original post by Ed.)
I don't know, that may never be necessary..

I don't really get a politics degree, is it political history ? political theory ? I don't get what you would do for 3 years. No better a preparation for politics than any good humanities degree.
I don't agree with that. It's the quasi-scientific study of political systems, and the analysis thereof. (If I may put it in such an enticing way. :p:) To truly understand the workings of a political system is quite an arduous task. To suggest that it is not a 'proper' degree is also to suggest that political modules in a History degree are not 'proper'.
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BlackpoolCraig
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#26
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You don't have to be upper class. The whole point of the Labour party (pre-1997) was to represent the working classes, and you'll still find many working class people hopelessly clinging onto this idea that the Labour party represents them. (They don't)

At the moment, I don't think there is anyone standing up for the working classes in politics. I usually think socialism is a pile of crap, but I think we need more prominent people giving a working class perspective in politics.
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Ed.
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#27
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(Original post by jismith1989)
I don't agree with that. It's the quasi-scientific study of political systems, and the analysis thereof. (If I may put it in such an enticing way. :p:) To truly understand the workings of a political system is quite an arduous task. To suggest that it is not a 'proper' degree is also to suggest that political modules in a History degree are not 'proper'.
I didn't suggest it wasn't a proper degree. I said I didn't really understand it. Looking at how you have described it, I would say it would be a terrible preparation for political life.

It sounds terribly dull - If you watch parliament sessions it is almost bloody theatre. Composing of a good argument seems more important to learn at undergrad than the ins and outs of the system.
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Reagan Smash
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#28
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Private education would probably help and so would good connections but its not everything.

Prime example is Alan Johnson the Health Secretary. DIdn't he e used to be a postman.
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faber niger
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Ed.)
I didn't suggest it wasn't a proper degree. I said I didn't really understand it. Looking at how you have described it, I would say it would be a terrible preparation for political life.

It sounds terribly dull - If you watch parliament sessions it is almost bloody theatre. Composing of a good argument seems more important to learn at undergrad than the ins and outs of the system.
Maybe that's true. I don't know how well it sets one up for a political career. But if one is interested in political systems and how they run, and the questions raised by them, then it's a good degree to take. Also, a lot of Politics degrees are joint, or even split three ways, i.e. PPE. Prime Minister's Questions is always great for a good bit of bad-mouthing from the dispatch boxes, but most of the time the House of Commons is a rather dull place -- have you ever watched BBC Parliament?

Anyway, sorry for being ever-so-slightly on the attack -- I like you, fellow Classics Society member. :p:
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Ed.
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#30
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#30
(Original post by jismith1989)
Maybe that's true. I don't know how well it sets one up for a political career. But if one is interested in political systems and how they run, and the questions raised by them, then it's a good degree to take. Prime Minister's Questions is always great for a good bit of bad-mouthing from the dispatch boxes, but most of the time the House of Commons is a rather dull place -- have you ever watched BBC Parliament?

Anyway, sorry for being on the attack -- I like you, fellow Classics Society member. :p:
I've only watched PM's question time which is very lively. The TSR parliament also gets a bit heated :p:

meh-
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Bagration
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#31
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(Original post by billyboymccoy)
a lot of old union people in the labour party. But they seem to be dieing out a bit now.
Yes, thank bloody christ. It ought to be illegal to be a member of a Union and a member of Parliament.

Now I don't know how accurate this is...
Born to single mother Betty Brown in York, Davis was initially brought up by his grandparents in York. His grandfather Walter Harrison was the son of a wealthy trawlerman and was disinherited after joining the Communist Party. His father, for whom he has never looked, was Welsh.[1] When his mother married a Polish-Jewish printworker, Ronald Davis, he moved to London. They lived initially in a flat in a "slum" in Wandsworth before moving to a council estate in Tooting, South London.

But if its true, then it certainly indicates that David Davis certainly isn't upper class. He's not even middle class.

I mean, yes, you can get into politics if you are working class. Its just alot easier if you're not.
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faber niger
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#32
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(Original post by Bagration)
Yes, thank bloody christ. It ought to be illegal to be a member of a Union and a member of Parliament.

Now I don't know how accurate this is...
Born to single mother Betty Brown in York, Davis was initially brought up by his grandparents in York. His grandfather Walter Harrison was the son of a wealthy trawlerman and was disinherited after joining the Communist Party. His father, for whom he has never looked, was Welsh.[1] When his mother married a Polish-Jewish printworker, Ronald Davis, he moved to London. They lived initially in a flat in a "slum" in Wandsworth before moving to a council estate in Tooting, South London.

But if its true, then it certainly indicates that David Davis certainly isn't upper class. He's not even middle class.

I mean, yes, you can get into politics if you are working class. Its just alot easier if you're not.
The respectable face of Imperial Tobacco; do we have to have such a logo thrust in our faces?
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Bagration
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#33
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#33
(Original post by jismith1989)
The respectable face of Imperial Tobacco; do we have to have such a logo thrust in our faces?
Deal with it.
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faber niger
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Bagration)
Deal with it.
What? The smoking-related deaths in my family?
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Bagration
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#35
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#35
(Original post by jismith1989)
What? The smoking-related deaths in my family?
How about the Communism-related deaths in my family? You don't see me telling Bakunin to change his sig or his avatar. It's an internet forum. I happen to like tobacco produced by imperial tobacco. By doing so I'm not advocating or supporting the deaths of your family members -.-
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faber niger
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Bagration)
How about the Communism-related deaths in my family? You don't see me telling Bakunin to change his sig or his avatar. It's an internet forum. I happen to like tobacco produced by imperial tobacco. By doing so I'm not advocating or supporting the deaths of your family members -.-
Yes, and you have family members who were Russian aristocrats in 1917, do you? You are promoting smoking, I would say; by linking it to your, care-free, don't give a ****, cool, neo-conservative belief-system. I have no problem with you smoking Imperial Tobacco cigarettes -- the choice is yours -- but why do you feel that it is something to be proud of?
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Bagration
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#37
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#37
(Original post by jismith1989)
Yes, and you have family members who were Russian aristocrats in 1917, do you?
How incredibly naive to believe the only people who have had their lives ruined by Communism are Russian aristocrats. Either way, that wasn't actually true, nobody in my family has died because of Communism (Although I can easily lie and make the case they had) but it was a good example, and I can find a great deal more. If someone was to put a picture of a Heinkel He 111 in their avatar, I don't see how that at all is offensive to people whose families were killed in the Blitz...

(Original post by jismith1989)
You are promoting smoking
If you put a picture of your favourite car into your avatar-box, is that promoting driving that type of car? Not at all.

(Original post by jismith1989)
I would say; by linking it to your, care-free, don't give a ****, cool,
Er, what? Since when did allowing somebody to do something mean you are condoning their use of it? What kind of nonsense socialist logic is that...

(Original post by jismith1989)
neo-conservative belief-system.
I am not a neo-con. No way in hell.

(Original post by jismith1989)
I have no problem with you smoking Imperial Tobacco cigarettes -- the choice is yours -- but why do you feel that it is something to be proud of?
lol wut? It's nothing to do with pride. Frankly, I like their logo, and it fits very neatly into the avatar box.

Besides which, when you push people, they start pushing back.
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faber niger
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#38
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#38
(Original post by Bagration)
How incredibly naive to believe the only people who have had their lives ruined by Communism are Russian aristocrats. Either way, that wasn't actually true, nobody in my family has died because of Communism (Although I can easily lie and make the case they had) but it was a good example, and I can find a great deal more. If someone was to put a picture of a Heinkel He 111 in their avatar, I don't see how that at all is offensive to people whose families were killed in the Blitz...


If you put a picture of your favourite car into your avatar-box, is that promoting driving that type of car? Not at all.


Er, what? Since when did allowing somebody to do something mean you are condoning their use of it? What kind of nonsense socialist logic is that...


I am not a neo-con. No way in hell.


lol wut? It's nothing to do with pride. Frankly, I like their logo, and it fits very neatly into the avatar box.

Besides which, when you push people, they start pushing back.
I'm not even going to reply to that. So much specious reasoning, so little time.
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user_01332
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To be fair if you are encouraged to perform a certain action or pertain to a certain belief because of someone’s avatar then you are pretty ******.

Also there is a significant difference between organisations and individuals promoting smoking.
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Seven_Three
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#40
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#40
(Original post by user_01332)
To be fair if you are encouraged to perform a certain action or pertain to a certain belief because of someone’s avatar then you are pretty ******.
This is the norm in socialists.

Also there is a significant difference between organisations and individuals promoting smoking.
There are no individuals in socialism.
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