Those of you who've done FM! Watch

Marsha2112
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I was thinking about it as well..but my friend's brother who is a genius and found Additional Maths GCSE piss-easy finds Further Maths hard. Does it depend a lot on the teacher? Because looking at the A-Level results for my school, about 1/4 get an A...is that particularly good? (no)
Meh...
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Tallon
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(Original post by Marsha2112)
I was thinking about it as well..but my friend's brother who is a genius and found Additional Maths GCSE piss-easy finds Further Maths hard. Does it depend a lot on the teacher? Because looking at the A-Level results for my school, about 1/4 get an A...is that particularly good? (no)
Meh...

a genius found it hard? hmm I don't think so. A genius would do A levels at a very young age if he/she did find it hard.
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Marsha2112
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Well...I don't know then.
And another question...Is FM taught quite fast? Because I hate racing through subjects (like we do in Maths atm because of Add Maths next year)
Thanks =]
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Greatleysteg
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(Original post by relentless999)
I was wondering how peopleget around this poarticular problem?

In my school we do in year 12 Further maths as and maths as. But in the exam of fp1 stuff from c1-c4 is assumed knowledge. But as we wont have covered the stuff until year 13 what the hell? lol
HI I'm not sure which board you're with, but I don't think C1-4 is assumed in FP1 in ANY board.

I self-taught Further Maths through the Further Maths Network; the board's OCR (MEI) (But their textbooks are absolute poo).

It's not too bad at all. I got an A* at GCSE without effort (like most people here) and found self-teaching fine. You tend to get through it quicker than you would if a teacher was teaching it, as you would otherwise only be able to go as fast as the slowest person in your class, which is damn slow in rubbishy Northern comprehensives! :p: I just asked for help a couple of times online when I struggled with one or two things.

FP1 with OCR (MEI) only assumed knowledge of C1 and C2, and I sat FP1 in the same session as C2, so it was fine.

Good luck!
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schrodinger's cat
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(Original post by Greatleysteg)
HI I'm not sure which board you're with, but I don't think C1-4 is assumed in FP1 in ANY board.

I self-taught Further Maths through the Further Maths Network; the board's OCR (MEI) (But their textbooks are absolute poo).

It's not too bad at all. I got an A* at GCSE without effort (like most people here) and found self-teaching fine. You tend to get through it quicker than you would if a teacher was teaching it, as you would otherwise only be able to go as fast as the slowest person in your class, which is damn slow in rubbishy Northern comprehensives! :p: I just asked for help a couple of times online when I struggled with one or two things.

FP1 with OCR (MEI) only assumed knowledge of C1 and C2, and I sat FP1 in the same session as C2, so it was fine.

Good luck!
It is for Edexcel (and far better for it IMO).

To the OP - taking Further Maths was the best (and possibly only good) decision i made, subjects wise. I ended up putting quite a bit more time into it than other subjects, but it gets you 2 a-levels at the end of the day and i truly enjoyed the fact that some parts were 'challenging'.

I think the only parts were it gets difficult is in the A2 part of further maths (i.e. in your U6th year towards the end) but this makes it a truly well respected a-level for it and as long as you put enough work in i don't see why this should be a problem.

I was in 3rd set for GCSE and almost everyone else in my set for further maths was in the top set before, however my results up to this point have been better than most of the rest purely because i put more work in - it's possible as long as you're commited.

As has been said, i think it would give you a very good advantage (or lack of a disadvantage) taking it for a degree such as Engineering.
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schrodinger's cat
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(Original post by Marsha2112)
Well...I don't know then.
And another question...Is FM taught quite fast? Because I hate racing through subjects (like we do in Maths atm because of Add Maths next year)
Thanks =]
Yes, unfortunately i think it is - especially in the first year.

The first year, the way my school did it, was effectively doing the entire AS and A2 normal maths course (and an additional module) in one year. Therefore what was challenging was not the content but keeping up. This wasn't so much the case for us in the second year (because we got so many modules out the way in the first year). These first few modules really are easy however and i think i would have been bored if we went through them any slower.
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Ewan
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Got an A* at GCSE (first year), got an A in Ad Maths GCSE (second year), and I got an A in Maths & FMath.

My advice would be to start the course, then drop it if you find it too difficult. This isn't really something someone that doesn't know you very well can advise you about. I knew a few people in my school that got A* at GCSE, and could barely hack maths let alone FMath.

When I had finished GCSE I had the same dilemma. It was my maths teacher in the end that convinced me to do it. At the end of the day, whats the harm, if you can't do it just drop it. I did chemistry for a month before dropping it.

Perhaps buy a book on the Additional maths course which is suppose to be slightly above GCSE level, but is essentially C1.

Further mathematics is the most respected A level you could possibly take, so this will look great on your CV and on your UCAS application - especially if your applying for something such as Engineering.

In regards to module muddling. Maths has to include C1,2,3,4 and FMath has to include FP1,2 other than this the modules will get allocated to give the best result. You won't get a B in maths but an A in further maths, but you may end up with a higher percentage (I actually got much higher grades in FMath, than math, even though both were A's).
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BibbleJW
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Alright, let's try for a catch-all response.

First up, difficulty. Yes, it will be more difficult than normal maths. That's a fact, live with it. You tend to learn a few concepts that will really stop you in your tracks at first, but once you start understanding, you might see the logic to some of the lower topics that the teachers say "you've got to learn this, but not the reasoning". In eseence, the learning curve may be a little steeper, but if you can manage it, it will certainly improve your normal maths marks at the very least.

Next, aggregation. The way that my exam board did it (and most go along the same lines) was that you had 3 modules per subject per year. C1 and C2 are compulsory 1st year normal maths, C3 and C4 likewise for the 2nd year. FP1 had to be in 1st year Further, and either FP2 or FP3 in 2nd year further. Anything past that was interchangeable, and the board fiddled it to get the best overall grades (note:grades, not marks), prioritising normal maths.

OK, reliance. If you are say studying FP1, which relies on a little of C3 knowledge, the school will have two basic options, delay the study of the module until you have learned the knowledge, or teach you what you need to know, and leave the reat of the module for later. My school chose the latter option, which gave me a minor advantage over the reat of the class when it came to studying the later modules. No bad thing.

Next up, what are the modules?
Core (C1,C2,C3,C4): This is typiucally theoretical, but basically covers the standard topics, and is an advancement of GCSE. I found C3 the hardest of the lot (as did the majority of people I have spoken to). Topics include calculus (advanced differentiation/integration, differential equations, etc.), trigonometry and various algebraic stuffs.

Further Pure (FP1,FP2,FP3): Again, mainly theoretical, this is a fair advancement on Core, with things like matrices, imaginary numbers, and allsorts. Once you have this down, the core stuff becomes a lot easier.

Mechanics (M1,M2,M3,M4): Practically based module, as far as such a thing occurs in maths, this is basically how the maths governs the world around us, and what sorts of formulae to use. This overlaps heavily with (at least my) physics course. This is best for those who are able to easily visualise the force diagrams, and work out what's meant to be where.

Statistics (S1, S2, S3?): Statistical analysis above and beyond the stuff as GCSE (yes, I did GCSE statistics), you learn the generalisations, and the various formulae to do with the analysis of large (and small) statistical groups. For this one, you really need to be able to recognise what you are looking at, and remember a few formulae.

Discision/Discrete (D1,D2): Only did a single module of this myself, and it was actually a fairly foreign concept to me at the time, but it is basically, the ways of formulaically solving a problem, in a number of steps. Those who have a good computational mind, and can go through long lists of instructions flawlessly will be good here.

That's about as brief a breakdown as I can make at the moment.

Ok, so you've either made it through that rather long-winded breakdown and arrived at the end, or, you have skipped past it all and gone the the end anyway. The big question: Do I want to take (Further) Maths?

Only you can answer this, but we can help. Do you enjoy maths? Is it something that comes easily to you? Do you see the world around you in formulae? Can you handle knowing the greek alphabet better than those studying greek?

Basically, if you do both at AS (as the standard 2 of 4), you need to face up the the fact that 1/2 of your timetable will be maths (more if you take something like physics along with it). If you proceed with it to A2, then you will have over half of your school life devoted to the motions of little numbers. So, why would anyone put themselves through it? Well, for Engineering courses, it is a very useful set of knowledge to have, it gets your brain thinking in a certain way. Also, if you do happen to be doing some of the more sciency subjects, there is a lot of overlap. Also, very few people do A2 Further Maths (I was the only one out of our sixth form), so you may be getting essentially one to one tuition, and will have more say in the modules that you study.

Now, go off and join the legions of mathematicians!

As a side note, I got:
GCSE:
Maths A
Stats A
AS:
Maths A
Further (A/B)
A2:
Maths A
Further B (one exam, in which I was ill)
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andyroo161
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#29
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AQA fiddle with the applied modules so that you achieve the best overall grade for Maths AND Further Maths. FP1 is the only AS level pure module the others are A2. At our school we do FP1 and FP4 first as FP1 is ther longest and FP4 is the shortest.

The subject istaught reasonable fast as student are expected to find the first few modules easy however I am sure your teacher would slow down if needed.
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Marsha2112
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#30
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#30
(Original post by Tallon)
a genius found it hard? hmm I don't think so. A genius would do A levels at a very young age if he/she did find it hard.
(Original post by BibbleJW)
Also, very few people do A2 Further Maths (I was the only one out of our sixth form)
Aha well that's probably why. In our school the only course is straight A2 Further Maths. Which means they do the whole A-level Maths in 1 year then the whole FM A2 the next.
Unless its like this for AS FM as well?
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BibbleJW
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#31
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#31
(Original post by Marsha2112)
Aha well that's probably why. In our school they only do A2 Further Maths I think. Which means they do the whole A-level Maths in 1 year then the whole FM A2 the next.
Unless its like this for AS FM as well?
The way I did it was C1,C2 and S1 for AS maths, FP1, M1, M2 for AS FM, all in the first year. C3,C4,D1 for A2 maths, FP3,M3,S2 for A2 FM the following year.

The only difference to your method would be to replace the 1st year FM with maths lessons, and get that over with, then do likewise for the second year.
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Marsha2112
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Ah ok...
...so then if you only did AS Further Maths, and did the first year like you did it, then would the 2nd year be half the amount? Nice..
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3thr3e
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Our school do it slightly unusually but it works well.

First year further maths:

FP1 [this is taught in one double period a week(100mins) and the exam is taken in June. We have about 2 months of past papers, long module]
D1 [this is taught in a single period(50 mins) outside of school and the exam is taken in June, this module is VERY EASY, medium length]

Second Year further maths:

FP4 [this is taught after school in a single period(50mins) once a week, and the exam is taken in January, this is a short module]
M2 [this is taught in one double period a week(100mins), and the exam is taken in January, medium length module]
FP3 [this is taught in another double period once a week(100mins), and the exam is taken in June, medium length module, but definately the hardest, makes C3 very very trivial]
M3 [we start this in January, and it replaces the M2 session(100mins), take the exam in June, Very short module, but a little tricky]

For Maths we do C1,C2,M1 in the first year, and C3,C4,S1 in the second.
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3thr3e
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Marsha2112)
Aha well that's probably why. In our school the only course is straight A2 Further Maths. Which means they do the whole A-level Maths in 1 year then the whole FM A2 the next.
Unless its like this for AS FM as well?
LOL, we have 26 doing AS FM, and next year its looking like about 18-20 doing A2 FM :|
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bballer4life
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(Original post by 3thr3e)
LOL, we have 26 doing AS FM, and next year its looking like about 18-20 doing A2 FM :|
that's quite alot. at as, our firther maths class had about 17 people in it
at a2, it became 12
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Marsha2112
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#36
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(Original post by 3thr3e)
Our school do it slightly unusually but it works well.

First year further maths:

FP1 [this is taught in one double period a week(100mins) and the exam is taken in June. We have about 2 months of past papers, long module]
D1 [this is taught in a single period(50 mins) outside of school and the exam is taken in June, this module is VERY EASY, medium length]

Second Year further maths:

FP4 [this is taught after school in a single period(50mins) once a week, and the exam is taken in January, this is a short module]
M2 [this is taught in one double period a week(100mins), and the exam is taken in January, medium length module]
FP3 [this is taught in another double period once a week(100mins), and the exam is taken in June, medium length module, but definately the hardest, makes C3 very very trivial]
M3 [we start this in January, and it replaces the M2 session(100mins), take the exam in June, Very short module, but a little tricky]

For Maths we do C1,C2,M1 in the first year, and C3,C4,S1 in the second.
Yeah..the way its taught in our school, they're not separate subjects. You don't have Maths and Further Maths lessons at the same time, you have one then the other. But I might ask them if they could introduce just the AS course..
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NS
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(Original post by BibbleJW)
Alright, let's try for a catch-all response.

First up, difficulty. Yes, it will be more difficult than normal maths. That's a fact, live with it. You tend to learn a few concepts that will really stop you in your tracks at first, but once you start understanding, you might see the logic to some of the lower topics that the teachers say "you've got to learn this, but not the reasoning". In eseence, the learning curve may be a little steeper, but if you can manage it, it will certainly improve your normal maths marks at the very least.

Next, aggregation. The way that my exam board did it (and most go along the same lines) was that you had 3 modules per subject per year. C1 and C2 are compulsory 1st year normal maths, C3 and C4 likewise for the 2nd year. FP1 had to be in 1st year Further, and either FP2 or FP3 in 2nd year further. Anything past that was interchangeable, and the board fiddled it to get the best overall grades (note:grades, not marks), prioritising normal maths.

OK, reliance. If you are say studying FP1, which relies on a little of C3 knowledge, the school will have two basic options, delay the study of the module until you have learned the knowledge, or teach you what you need to know, and leave the reat of the module for later. My school chose the latter option, which gave me a minor advantage over the reat of the class when it came to studying the later modules. No bad thing.

Next up, what are the modules?
Core (C1,C2,C3,C4): This is typiucally theoretical, but basically covers the standard topics, and is an advancement of GCSE. I found C3 the hardest of the lot (as did the majority of people I have spoken to). Topics include calculus (advanced differentiation/integration, differential equations, etc.), trigonometry and various algebraic stuffs.

Further Pure (FP1,FP2,FP3): Again, mainly theoretical, this is a fair advancement on Core, with things like matrices, imaginary numbers, and allsorts. Once you have this down, the core stuff becomes a lot easier.

Mechanics (M1,M2,M3,M4): Practically based module, as far as such a thing occurs in maths, this is basically how the maths governs the world around us, and what sorts of formulae to use. This overlaps heavily with (at least my) physics course. This is best for those who are able to easily visualise the force diagrams, and work out what's meant to be where.

Statistics (S1, S2, S3?): Statistical analysis above and beyond the stuff as GCSE (yes, I did GCSE statistics), you learn the generalisations, and the various formulae to do with the analysis of large (and small) statistical groups. For this one, you really need to be able to recognise what you are looking at, and remember a few formulae.

Discision/Discrete (D1,D2): Only did a single module of this myself, and it was actually a fairly foreign concept to me at the time, but it is basically, the ways of formulaically solving a problem, in a number of steps. Those who have a good computational mind, and can go through long lists of instructions flawlessly will be good here.

That's about as brief a breakdown as I can make at the moment.

Ok, so you've either made it through that rather long-winded breakdown and arrived at the end, or, you have skipped past it all and gone the the end anyway. The big question: Do I want to take (Further) Maths?

Only you can answer this, but we can help. Do you enjoy maths? Is it something that comes easily to you? Do you see the world around you in formulae? Can you handle knowing the greek alphabet better than those studying greek?

Basically, if you do both at AS (as the standard 2 of 4), you need to face up the the fact that 1/2 of your timetable will be maths (more if you take something like physics along with it). If you proceed with it to A2, then you will have over half of your school life devoted to the motions of little numbers. So, why would anyone put themselves through it? Well, for Engineering courses, it is a very useful set of knowledge to have, it gets your brain thinking in a certain way. Also, if you do happen to be doing some of the more sciency subjects, there is a lot of overlap. Also, very few people do A2 Further Maths (I was the only one out of our sixth form), so you may be getting essentially one to one tuition, and will have more say in the modules that you study.

Now, go off and join the legions of mathematicians!

As a side note, I got:
GCSE:
Maths A
Stats A
AS:
Maths A
Further (A/B)
A2:
Maths A
Further B (one exam, in which I was ill)
:zomg:
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BibbleJW
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#38
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#38
(Original post by Marsha2112)
Ah ok...
...so then if you only did AS Further Maths, and did the first year like you did it, then would the 2nd year be half the amount? Nice..
Umm, no. AS is half of A2, doing AS in one year means an equal amount of work in the second year. It is the same as any other course.
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Marsha2112
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(Original post by BibbleJW)
Umm, no. AS is half of A2, doing AS in one year means an equal amount of work in the second year. It is the same as any other course.
Noo, I meant if you only wanted to do AS FM, so no A2 the next year...
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TSR King
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(Original post by rizzle08)
a quick question to those who did further maths at as level. which of the further pure units did you take? because i would have thought it would be normal to take fp1 and fp2 in your first year, but at my school we took fp1 and fp4 along with d1. im just wondering if anyone else did it this way as fp4 seemed much harder then anything in fp1 and wouldnt it be more logical to take fp2 instead.
we are with ocr and it only goes up to FP3...
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