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    (Original post by River85)
    I would think (I would hope) most employers would know that York was founded by the Romans and called Eboracum. It was a very important city, the unofficial capital of the Roman world for a couple of years. Then again, maybe I expect most people to be a geek like me.

    Meh....
    I think you are expecting a little too much. :p: Maybe large/prestigious employers (where the recruiting staff are either going to be aware of the Latin through encountering it or through virtue of their probable 'better' education) would know such things, but I bet that it's hardly common knowledge.
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    (Original post by ukebert)
    The main use of it is to distinguish between 'real' MA's, and MA's that are really BA's from Oxbridge or Trinity college.
    There seems to be an echo in here!
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    There seems to be an echo in here!
    Well, I'm all in favour of just giving Oxonians/Cantabrigians BAs; why should they automatically obtain MAs? :curious:
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    (Original post by jismith1989)
    :cool: Nice point.

    However, what would be wrong with the following on his profile page (and I'd say that it looks clearer)?

    MA -- University of Oxford
    MPhil -- University of Glasgow
    DPhil -- University of Oxford

    Yes, it's more words and all, but we aren't rationed. At least then we have the full information, and those students/alumni of universities that don't happen to have an easily accessible Latin form (which can cause confusion anyway, as we've already had someone who didn't understand the Latin form of York on here) can also use the same format.

    Or am I just making too much out of this? :p:
    Yes, you are. They embody two important things: concision and tradition. In any case, it's good for Oxbridge graduates to use Oxon/Cantab as it shows that their MAs are honorific.
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    (Original post by jismith1989)
    Well, I'm all in favour of just giving Oxonians/Cantabrigians BAs; why should they automatically obtain MAs? :curious:
    Because an MA used to be the qualification to permit people to teach. When there were only two universities in England / Wales (Scotland: note that the Ancients award MAs as undergraduate degrees) the MA was given to allow people into congregation and to permit them to teach. It is awarded 7 years after your BA, the same length of time apprentices were seconded for.
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    (Original post by oriel historian)
    Because an MA used to be the qualification to permit people to teach. When there were only two universities in England / Wales (Scotland: note that the Ancients award MAs as undergraduate degrees) the MA was given to allow people into congregation and to permit them to teach. It is awarded 7 years after your BA, the same length of time apprentices were seconded for.
    Okay, so it's an anachronism. Let's get rid of it! :eek:
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    (Original post by jismith1989)
    What about the example of York University? It relies on people understanding the Latin word for York, which many employers in today's world may well not. Ebor isn't very self-explanatory to those who haven't studied Latin or don't have the requisite general knowledge. :hmmm:
    Not only that, but Ebor is one of the main taxi firms in York.

    You'd attract many funny looks if you used it.
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    (Original post by jismith1989)
    Okay, so it's an anachronism. Let's get rid of it! :eek:
    in this case, it's more than sufficiently earned. Consider that in one term alone I used to write 16 essays. That's more than most of the people I knew doing degrees at Cardiff, Leeds, or Exeter did in an entire year! People really and honestly have little idea how much work goes into an Oxford undergraduate degree.

    Oh and if we got rid of it, no graduate of Oxford would be admitted to congregration. That's another purpose of it.
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    (Original post by jismith1989)
    Okay, so it's an anachronism. Let's get rid of it! :eek:
    But it's charming :p: and means I could potentially get an MA with no work
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    (Original post by -Em-)
    Not only that, but Ebor is one of the main taxi firms in York.

    You'd attract many funny looks if you used it.
    :p:

    In my opinion, it's just an example of using outdated terminology when modern will perfectly suffice. And I'm a classicist.
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    (Original post by jismith1989)
    Okay, so it's an anachronism. Let's get rid of it! :eek:
    I'd wager that your indignation at this supposed injustice only emerged after rejection from Oxford.
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    (Original post by ukebert)
    But it's charming :p: and means I could potentially get an MA with no work
    Sorry to disappoint you UKE ... only those who pass out of Oxford / Cambridge with a BA are entitled to "upgrade" for an MA. Thus, those with an M.Eng are not permitted. At least, as far as I understood the rules since the BA predates the manufactured science undergrad masters.
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    (Original post by jismith1989)
    Well, I'm all in favour of just giving Oxonians/Cantabrigians BAs; why should they automatically obtain MAs? :curious:
    Well, first of all, it is not automatic. They have to pay some money. But, that triviality aside, the whole point is that they don't earn anything accepted as an MA. They get an MA (Cantab) or an MA (Oxon), which are recognised as being the same as BAs elsewhere. That is the reason for the bit in brackets - to flag to everyone that it is really a bachelor-level first degree, and not an undergraduate masters like an MEng or an MPhys or a postgraduuate masters like an MSc.
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    (Original post by oriel historian)
    Sorry to disappoint you UKE ... only those who pass out of Oxford / Cambridge with a BA are entitled to "upgrade" for an MA. Thus, those with an M.Eng are not permitted. At least, as far as I understood the rules since the BA predates the manufactured science undergrad masters.
    Actually I will get an MA after 3 years and an MEng after an additional 1, although there is only one graduation ceremony. It's all very complicated and I don't really understand it, but yes I would get a BA/MA plus an MEng in addition
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    (Original post by oriel historian)
    in this case, it's more than sufficiently earned. Consider that in one term alone I used to write 16 essays. That's more than most of the people I knew doing degrees at Cardiff, Leeds, or Exeter did in an entire year! People really and honestly have little idea how much work goes into an Oxford undergraduate degree.

    Oh and if we got rid of it, no graduate of Oxford would be admitted to congregration. That's another purpose of it.
    I disagree. You're making the assumption propagated by this anachronistic honour: i.e. Oxbridge student > other students. If all students were made to write 16 essays in a term, I'd imagine that they'd be up to a higher academic standard too. However, we cannot assume that other students could not cope with this workload or do not do a great deal of additional reading above and beyond their courses, as you are doing. Also, the honour doesn't just go to those Oxbridgians who do well -- you could get a third and still an MA. Therefore, why the honour? I don't like the assumptive stratification of students, and this seems to do just that. Oxbridge does not always equal best, though it does of course have a preponderance of intelligent students.

    Congregation? Expliquez! :p: Though of course the rules regarding congregation could of course be changed just as easily as those regarding MAs, I'm sure.
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    (Original post by -Em-)
    Not only that, but Ebor is one of the main taxi firms in York.

    You'd attract many funny looks if you used it.
    The Archbishop doesn't when he uses it.
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    (Original post by Jerby)
    I'd wager that your indignation at this supposed injustice only emerged after rejection from Oxford.
    Of course it did. Any more questions?

    (Though I was rejected w/out interview, as my grades at that time weren't amazing; I'd be more disgraced if I'd been rejected after interview.)
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    (Original post by ukebert)
    Actually I will get an MA after 3 years and an MEng after an additional 1, although there is only one graduation ceremony. It's all very complicated and I don't really understand it, but yes I would get a BA/MA plus an MEng in addition
    Ah, in which case it's probably the case that if you finish after 3 years you'll get a BA. If you finish the 4 year course, you'll only get the M.Eng. You don't get both. It's the same situation at Oxford. It's massively weird.
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    (Original post by jismith1989)
    I disagree. You're making the assumption propagated by this anachronistic honour: i.e. Oxbridge student > other students. If all students were made to write 16 essays in a term, I'd imagine that they'd be up to a higher academic standard too. However, we cannot assume that other students could not cope with this workload or do not do a great deal of additional reading above and beyond their courses, as you are doing. Also, the honour doesn't just go to those Oxbridgians who do well -- you could get a third and still an MA. Therefore, why the honour? I don't like the assumptive stratification of students, and this seems to do just that. Oxbridge does not always equal best, though it does of course have a preponderance of intelligent students.

    Congregation? Expliquez! :p: Though of course the rules regarding congregation could of course be changed just as easily as those regarding MAs, I'm sure.
    Bearing in mind this earnest protestation: why the reapplication to Cambridge? Why not just work hard at Manchester?
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    (Original post by River85)
    The Archbishop doesn't when he uses it.
    :p: Well, there's another anachronism for you. And, for the record, the archbishop always receives funny looks from me. :cool:
 
 
 
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