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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Well argued, because of course opposition to all referenda is based on the dislike of the possible outcome of a single instance. :rolleyes:
    What are you afraid of? That the will of the people might actually be different to that of the politicians?
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    (Original post by Grim_the_Reaper)
    What are you afraid of? That the will of the people might actually be different to that of the politicians?
    More that the "will of the people" amounts to little more than the whim of the less well educated, based on largely erroneous facts combined with fallacious and irrational thinking all carried out in the few minutes of spare thinking time available.
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    (Original post by MDPR)
    Do you think that Referendums signify a more democratic form of participation for the voters than the opportunity to vote in elections?
    Yes, but that doesn't make them a good idea. We elect those we have great confidence in to represent us. I doubt most of the population understand what the Lisbon Treaty is all about (et cetera [use any other individual case]) though they absolutely need the right to vote for their general ideology in order to create a society free from the control of the ruling class, dictatorship, or a certain breed of elites. That's why democracy more-or-less works. It allows all people to have their views heard through a more reasonable instrument of politics, rather than whimsically force individual judgements from everyone in the population when they'd rather choose the more practical and sensible idea of electing someone to represent their views in an effective manner.
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    (Original post by Grim_the_Reaper)
    Anyone with half a brain cell can see that our politicians would struggle to run a bath let alone a country. THEY are the idiots.

    I beg to differ. It was politicans who took us into Iraq, sold our soveriegnty to the EU and implemented various other idiotic polices that have ruined this once great nation, not the public.
    And yet they still lead and rule you; who are the smart ones again?

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    (Original post by ForeverIsMyName)
    And yet they still lead and rule you; who are the smart ones again?

    Labour still rule and lead us due to an idiotic electoral system that allows the moronic minority of 9 million Labour voters to impose their party's idiocy on a nation of 60 million, the majority of which did vote Labour.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    More that the "will of the people" amounts to little more than the whim of the less well educated, based on largely erroneous facts combined with fallacious and irrational thinking all carried out in the few minutes of spare thinking time available.
    Well done, you described the way polices are formulated in the Labour and Tory parties in a single sentence.
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    (Original post by Grim_the_Reaper)
    Two points:

    2. Labour only got 35% of the vote in 2005. Most people didn't vote for Labour so I fail to see why to see why we should have to accept the decisions of a party we didn't even vote for.
    I've never voted conservative so why should I have to accept the decisions of that party when they win with a minority of the overall electorate?
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    (Original post by Grim_the_Reaper)
    Well done, you described the way polices are formulated in the Labour and Tory parties in a single sentence.
    So basically your argument is that if the current system is apparently being implemented badly we should throw it out and institute a system which both in theory and in practice will be far worse but has the attractive quality of being both new and simple.

    Tell me, how many people in the run up to a referendum on, say, the Lisbon Treaty would have read it? And of those, how many would also have the knowledge of the structure of the EU within which context to properly place the legislation contained within the proposed Treaty?
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    (Original post by Grim_the_Reaper)
    Labour still rule and lead us due to an idiotic electoral system that allows the moronic minority of 9 million Labour voters to impose their party's idiocy on a nation of 60 million, the majority of which did vote Labour.
    Forget Labour and Conservative; the structures and institutions that lie behind the political process that decide the level of influence they have on your life have nothing whatsoever to do with the Labour or Conservative party - you're getting screwed either way you vote. The MP's are the smart ones here; their ideas might be idiotic, but that doesn't mean it doesn't take some skill to keep the population under control.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    So basically your argument is that if the current system is apparently being implemented badly we should throw it out and institute a system which both in theory and in practice will be far worse but has the attractive quality of being both new and simple.

    Tell me, how many people in the run up to a referendum on, say, the Lisbon Treaty would have read it? And of those, how many would also have the knowledge of the structure of the EU within which context to properly place the legislation contained within the proposed Treaty?
    And your argument is that the people should blindly accept what their politicians do and go along with it?

    Wonderful. No wonder your party is as useless as Labour.

    Oh, and it's blatantly obvious that the Lisbon treaty was designed to appear totally incomprehensible to the electorate. This allowed MPs to have a vote and sovereignty to therefore be prostituted.
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    (Original post by Grim_the_Reaper)
    And your argument is that the people should blindly accept what their politicians do and go along with it?

    Wonderful. No wonder your party is as useless as Labour.

    Oh, and it's blatantly obvious that the Lisbon treaty was designed to appear totally incomprehensible to the electorate. This allowed MPs to have a vote and sovereignty to therefore be prostituted.
    People do not need to blindly accept anything which is why we have elections. If people think that their representative has failed in his task of making the best judgement available with all the relevant facts and arguments they elect a different representative they think is able to do the job properly.

    Also, please note that the TSR Conservative Party is not the same as the RL Conservative Party. See http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=102 for more details

    As for your last point. I will firstly take it as a concession that, in fact, the vast majority would not have read it or understood it nor have the necessary supplementary knowledge to fully appreciate the implications and consequences of ratification or, indeed, non-ratification.

    But secondly, you would find, should you read any piece of legislation or for that matter any lengthy legal document, that they are all equally complicated and rather than being designed to baffle people the vast majority of whom have no interest whatever of reading the document, they are written in this manner so as to be as comprehensive as possible and as rigid as possible. Why do you suppose lawyers get paid so much or that there are so many of them?
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    You can tell when schools back, when d&d gets full of AS politics questions.
 
 
 
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