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    (Original post by mfm89)
    To use a rather silly analogy of why I believe in Left-wing politics.

    If life is like a game of monopoly. Everyone starts out with the same amount of money, and has equal chance at achieving the best for themselves. You can make choices throughout your life. Buy Mayfair [educate yourself] at a high cost, but expect high returns [good job] or do it differently and go for Old Kent road. Everyone was given a fair chance at the beginning, you pay tax, but you also get a safety net every time you pass go. And of course Monopoly, created during the great depression, the last time we were all ****** over by the stock market.

    **** analogy? Yes.
    Yes, terrible. lol.

    Everyone doesn't start with the same money for starters. Also, everyone doesn't land on Mayfair, so are stuck with Old Kent Road.
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    (Original post by nadiah)
    It has already been said but I'll say it again; not everyone on benefits is too lazy to work. Many of those who don't work aren't ABLE to work due to emotional, physical or mental reasons, and remember there are such things as single mothers who have young children to look after.
    My mother is on benefits, I'm well aware not everyone is too lazy to work. However I'm also aware, again from personal experience, of the number of tossers who aren't genuinely needing them, who are perfectly capable of getting a job and doing some work for once. I didn't say let's get rid of the welfare state completely but I'm definitely of the opinion that it needs serious serious reform (however no doubt we'd see the same kind of reaction as to the poll tax were any politician to dare try).
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    To take the OP's analogy, which obviously carries a right-wing bias, and turn it around; two girls in a class, one works hard on her homework, the other is dyslexic and can't do it well. The teacher won't accept this as an excuse (the teacher doesn't represent the government by the way ). Should the girl who has done her homework help out the disadvantaged one?

    I know it's not the best analogy, but I based it on the above, which wasn't that good either :p:

    Left-wing politics is not about the hard-working helping the lazy.
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    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    My mother is on benefits, I'm well aware not everyone is too lazy to work. However I'm also aware, again from personal experience, of the number of tossers who aren't genuinely needing them, who are perfectly capable of getting a job and doing some work for once. I didn't say let's get rid of the welfare state completely but I'm definitely of the opinion that it needs serious serious reform (however no doubt we'd see the same kind of reaction as to the poll tax were any politician to dare try).
    Maybe that's what you are doing wrong, looking at things from personal experiences? There's more going on that what you have seen/dealt with personally.
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    (Original post by nadiah)
    I'm left wing because I think we need to look after those who at at a disadvantage in life. Not everyone is lazy; many just can't get a well paid job, why should they suffer? Also, many of those who you would call 'lazy' have children; the state should be there to look after them too.
    :yy:
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    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    My mother is on benefits, I'm well aware not everyone is too lazy to work. However I'm also aware, again from personal experience, of the number of tossers who aren't genuinely needing them, who are perfectly capable of getting a job and doing some work for once. I didn't say let's get rid of the welfare state completely but I'm definitely of the opinion that it needs serious serious reform (however no doubt we'd see the same kind of reaction as to the poll tax were any politician to dare try).

    I do agree that it needs reform, but I don't think it will ever happen because it's just too hard to police. In this society it's the middle classses who lose out; the higher classes have their money and the lower have their benefits. It's kinda like Uni loans; my family earns enough that I don't get the maximum loan nor do I get a maintenance grant, however it is going to be a struggle for them to give me money for uni (although they will probably scrape by!).

    In all honesty, I'd prefer to know that some of my money was going to those who were 'lazy' than know that those in need were suffering because they weren't getting anything.
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    (Original post by SillyFencer)
    Maybe that's what you are doing wrong, looking at things from personal experiences? There's more going on that what you have seen/dealt with personally.
    I'd say it's what all you student left wing people need to do. Actually find out the kind of people you're defending.
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    (Original post by nadiah)
    It has already been said but I'll say it again; not everyone on benefits is too lazy to work. Many of those who don't work aren't ABLE to work due to emotional, physical or mental reasons, and remember there are such things as single mothers who have young children to look after.
    Hence my analogy Also, people ought to remember that this sort of thing isn't the only view expressed in left-wing policies.

    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    My mother is on benefits, I'm well aware not everyone is too lazy to work. However I'm also aware, again from personal experience, of the number of tossers who aren't genuinely needing them, who are perfectly capable of getting a job and doing some work for once. I didn't say let's get rid of the welfare state completely but I'm definitely of the opinion that it needs serious serious reform (however no doubt we'd see the same kind of reaction as to the poll tax were any politician to dare try).
    I quite agree, the system does need reform, but the fact that the current system doesn't work doesn't mean that the principles upon which it is based don't work. It's not the fault of left-wing politics
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    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    I'd say it's what all you student left wing people need to do. Actually find out the kind of people you're defending.
    Who said I'm left wing? Don't make assumptions now.
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    (Original post by nadiah)
    I do agree that it needs reform, but I don't think it will ever happen because it's just too hard to police. In this society it's the middle classses who lose out; the higher classes have their money and the lower have their benefits. It's kinda like Uni loans; my family earns enough that I don't get the maximum loan nor do I get a maintenance grant, however it is going to be a struggle for them to give me money for uni (although they will probably scrape by!).

    In all honesty, I'd prefer to know that some of my money was going to those who were 'lazy' than know that those in need were suffering because they weren't getting anything.
    I'd prefer a society where a safety net was just that: a net to stop you from dying but not really enough to have a decent standard of life on and there were incentives to get people back into work, like gradiated levels of benefit. It shouldn't be generation after generation living on the dole.
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    I like the ideology of leftists: Unity, Co operation, fairness and equality.....in relation to the monopoly game:- not every gets their £2500 at the start of life (or however much) so left/right/whatever, Id want to see something that redistributes wealth and resources equally.
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    (I took the liberty to not quote in the same order as what you wrote in your post)

    (Original post by Edenr)
    I believe the state should not provide any services which could be provided by the private sector.
    So basically you prefer to have a slice of the money you pay to go to someone as 'profit' instead of a (in theory) not-for-profit service? That's interesting.

    (Original post by Edenr)
    I believe unreasonable taxation is an affront to the liberty of the individual.
    And the lack of access to (free) education, healthcare, etc does not? Define "unreasonable". I'd say unreasonable is something that's beyond what is necessary for providing essential services (including but not limited to education and healthcare) free of charge.

    (Original post by Edenr)
    I believe in charity, and the goodwill of men who give what they have to help others.
    Well clearly you haven't got any intention to give what you have to help others. That's called being a hypocrite.

    (Original post by Edenr)
    I believe strong law enforcement is key to cutting crime.
    Whatever happened to the "liberty of the individual" mentioned previously?

    (Original post by Edenr)
    I believe in the traditional family as the best way to bring up children.
    I wasn't brought up in a "traditional family" and in both the view of myself and of others, turned out just fine thankyouverymuch.

    (Original post by Edenr)
    I believe in the power of the individual to shape his own future.
    If you happen to be born in Zimbabwe... well, good luck with that...

    (Original post by Edenr)
    I believe that the individual has a right to property that should not be infringed by the government.
    What is this right based on, why should the government not, for example, tax you on property that creates wealth for you? (I suppose you'd call such taxation "infingement" on your property)

    (Original post by Edenr)
    I believe in a strong military as the best way to ensure the safety of a nation's people, their protection from outside forces being the primary responsibility of government.
    Sorry, what century were we in, again? 17th?
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    (Original post by mfm89)
    To use a rather silly analogy of why I believe in Left-wing politics.

    If life is like a game of monopoly. Everyone starts out with the same amount of money, and has equal chance at achieving the best for themselves. You can make choices throughout your life. Buy Mayfair [educate yourself] at a high cost, but expect high returns [good job] or do it differently and go for Old Kent road. Everyone was given a fair chance at the beginning, you pay tax, but you also get a safety net every time you pass go. And of course Monopoly, created during the great depression, the last time we were all ****** over by the stock market.

    **** analogy? Yes.
    I'd say it's a fairly good analogy.

    The guy in Zimbabwe gets £50 at the start of the game, the guy in Kensington gets £50 000 000.

    Funnily enough the above doesn't only happen in games.
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    (Original post by HJV)
    (I took the liberty to not quote in the same order as what you wrote in your post)



    So basically you prefer to have a slice of the money you pay to go to someone as 'profit' instead of a (in theory) not-for-profit service? That's interesting.



    And the lack of access to (free) education, healthcare, etc does not? Define "unreasonable". I'd say unreasonable is something that's beyond what is necessary for providing essential services (including but not limited to education and healthcare) free of charge.



    Well clearly you haven't got any intention to give what you have to help others. That's called being a hypocrite.



    Whatever happened to the "liberty of the individual" mentioned previously?



    I wasn't brought up in a "traditional family" and in both the view of myself and of others, turned out just fine thankyouverymuch.



    If you happen to be born in Zimbabwe... well, good luck with that...



    What is this right based on, why should the government not, for example, tax you on property that creates wealth for you? (I suppose you'd call such taxation "infingement" on your property)



    Sorry, what century were we in, again? 17th?
    Rep at midnight :yep:

    -again :p:

    EDIT: Silly me, can't rep you again yet can I? I'll add you to the list :yep:
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    I am a working-class Conservative.

    For the record, I don't agree with all these generalisations about left-wing and right-wing people!

    I may be a Conservative, but I am believe that some of Labour's laws (NHS, minimum wage, etc.) have been successful, much like many left-wingers believed the same of Mrs Thatcher's laws (I think we can all forget Major!).

    I am also supportive of the less-militant Trade Unions, except to the extent whereby some donate a part of each member's contributions to the Labour Party (I have, naturally, opted-out of this, as is my right).

    As far as I can see, there is no such thing as "typical" left- or right-wing.
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    (Original post by AlanWCollins)
    I am a working-class Conservative.

    For the record, I don't agree with all these generalisations about left-wing and right-wing people!

    I may be a Conservative, but I am believe that some of Labour's laws (NHS, minimum wage, etc.) have been successful, much like many left-wingers believed the same of Mrs Thatcher's laws (I think we can all forget Major!).

    I am also supportive of the less-militant Trade Unions, except to the extent whereby some donate a part of each member's contributions to the Labour Party (I have, naturally, opted-out of this, as is my right).

    As far as I can see, there is no such thing as "typical" left- or right-wing.
    A Tory I can respect!
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    I'm just gonna post this

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xMrm7ZQ0aMA

    :yep:
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    (Original post by HJV)
    (I took the liberty to not quote in the same order as what you wrote in your post)



    So basically you prefer to have a slice of the money you pay to go to someone as 'profit' instead of a (in theory) not-for-profit service? That's interesting.

    I'd rather have the choice of deciding which service is best for me rather than the government taking my money and giving us whatever it can be bothered to.


    And the lack of access to (free) education, healthcare, etc does not? Define "unreasonable". I'd say unreasonable is something that's beyond what is necessary for providing essential services (including but not limited to education and healthcare) free of charge.

    Taxes should go towards the military and law enforcement. Healthcare and education can be provided by the private sector. These essential services you talk of are not 'free of charge'. We're paying for them.


    Well clearly you haven't got any intention to give what you have to help others. That's called being a hypocrite.

    Whatever gave you that idea? The government shouldn't force you to help others. It should be something that the individual chooses to do.


    Whatever happened to the "liberty of the individual" mentioned previously?

    Crime infringes on the liberty of the individual, so action must be taken.

    I wasn't brought up in a "traditional family" and in both the view of myself and of others, turned out just fine thankyouverymuch.

    I said 'best', not 'only'. I'm sure you think that, I couldn't possibly comment.


    If you happen to be born in Zimbabwe... well, good luck with that...

    Perfect example of the state being out of control. Maybe my wording was ambiguous. The individual is capable of running his own life better than the state can.

    What is this right based on, why should the government not, for example, tax you on property that creates wealth for you? (I suppose you'd call such taxation "infingement" on your property)

    What right does the government have to take your money? Property and freedom are inseparable.

    Sorry, what century were we in, again? 17th?

    Your point being...
    ###
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    (Original post by HJV)
    I've never understood the appeal behind right-wing voting. Sure, if you're a filthy rich capitalist, you can/should vote Conservative for purely selfish reasons. But, assuming the majority of us aren't, can someone try and convince me of the merits of it?
    Right-wing -- Left-wing

    Individualism -- Collectivism -- Right wins
    Liberty -- State controll -- Right wins
    Equality of opportunity -- Equality of outcome -- Right wins
    Civil society -- Class, Gender, Racial conflict -- Right wins
    Moderate taxation -- Heavy taxation -- Right wins
    Controll of the people -- Controll of the state -- Right wins

    Don't let your bleeding heart make your decisions, you lot watch too many disney cartoons.
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    (Original post by the666thmessiah)
    Anarchy FTW, democracy is simply old men talking and young men dying while they decide what to do... ******* fat cats, all of them, obsessed with getting more money, when they know its actually worthless...

    Well, either this, or communism, as in, absolute, communism, no corruption, pure, unadultered communism, the complete destruction of all money's value in the redistribution of wealth, no-one is excluded from their potential. THIS IS TRUE UTOPIA ...at least, the utopia that we will never achieve with capatlist systems in place...
    Nice to know that people still believe in this rubbish (sorry, but thats the only way to describe it)
 
 
 
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