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    (Original post by vienna95)
    it depends on how strongly you believe in libertarianism or classical liberalism. my personal view of the matter is that benefits and funds to certain exception groups are necessary. the reduction of the welfare state from those which one deems not necessary would actually allow financial support to be provided to the minority. this would also mean alot of public funding be taken away from domestic students.
    Of course, the question is really who to include/exclude.
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    (Original post by Linda)
    um, Camford, almost no US colleges are need blind towards international students, meaning how willing you are to pay matters in the admission process, now, that's not fair, is it?

    also, the Norwegian government thinks the US school system is crap, and doesn't even offer LOANS to study freshman year in the US. Plus US tution fees are conciderably higher than UK ones.

    Cost of going to Harvard:
    Annual Expenses
    Tuition: $26,066
    Room & board: $8,868
    Average book and supply expenses: $2,522
    Required fees: $2,994

    Aid Statistics
    Freshmen receiving need-based financial aid: 48% Undergraduate receiving need-based financial aid: 48%
    Average freshman need-based loan: $1,100
    Average freshman need-based grant: $23,750

    from http://www.princetonreview.com/colle...1022984&LTID=1
    The point is that if you are good, you'll have your tuitions and everything paid for. And in the UK, no matter how good you are, you have to pay.
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    (Original post by Camford)
    The point is that if you are good, you'll have your tuitions and everything paid for. And in the UK, no matter how good you are, you have to pay.
    That's not 100% true - there are a lot of bursaries and scholarships available - they just vary by subject/uni and sometimes are reliant on where you are from.
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    (Original post by J.S.)
    Of course, the question is really who to include/exclude.
    well able-bodied people who are capable of work is generally the starting point. again, it depends on how strongly you believe in it and whether you have any other tendencies, anarchic-capitalism for example.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    well able-bodied people who are capable of work is generally the starting point. again, it depends on how strongly you believe in it and whether you have any other tendencies, anarchic-capitalism for example.
    I too would go with the same line of reasoning, and take these groups as a starting point. However, it's really not that simple, there are many different types of people in society that cannot/will not participate in the economy. How about those who are mentally ill? Then, of course, there are problems of classification, which are endless. How about people suffering from abuse...they may still be able bodied, for instance, but hardly in an able state to participate in employment. Then, again, the difficulty of defintion arises. What is abuse, and what not? Are we going to include/exclude verbal or only use physical forms?

    I think it's fairly safe to say that many people cannot participate in employment (not for a long enough period to be able to support themselves anyway). The answer to such groups would be either to provide some form of state welfare (perhaps even to get them into work), or just allow them to 'die out'.
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    (Original post by Pencil Queen)
    That's not 100% true - there are a lot of bursaries and scholarships available - they just vary by subject/uni and sometimes are reliant on where you are from.
    Yes I agree. However, no universities do that for undergraduates. It costs on average 40 to 50 grand in an average uni in England, and it cost 60 grand if it's Oxbridge. Compares to the US where 70% of the undergraduates don't have pay for tuition fees.
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    (Original post by Camford)
    Yes I agree. However, no universities do that for undergraduates. It costs on average 40 to 50 grand in an average uni in England, and it cost 60 grand if it's Oxbridge. Compares to the US where 70% of the undergraduates don't have pay for tuition fees.
    Actually quite a large proportion of bursaries/scholarships are available for undergraduates, like I say they vary by subject/uni so it often involves quite a bit of digging to find out which you might be eligable for...more are likely to be set up and publicised for home/eu undergraduates when top up fees kick in in 2006.

    I'm not sure what you're referring to with the £40-50k - if that's international students fees then I think you'll find it's quite a bit lower than that for most subjects (exception being medicine which will cost in the region of £70k for 5 yrs) ie £24k for a 3 yr arts based degree, and £30 for a science/engineering 3 yr degree (£40K ish for a 4 yr MEng/UG Masters)...and this is the higher end of the scale.
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    Note: We are talking about the availabilities to overseas student only. Not EU or UK students.
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    (Original post by Camford)
    Note: We are talking about the availabilities to overseas student only. Not EU or UK students.
    In which case there are still numerous bursaries and scholarships available - even for undergraduates. They're often biased towards certain countries (for instance I know that malaysia has a deal which involves subsidising a certain number of thei citizens who study here) and still very dependant on the subject and the university - but they do exist.

    (Original post by Unregistered)
    thank you mate,you said that were totally give me a confidence ,but you are right ,now ,my english certitude not standard ,in university could be a big problem,I should work hard.
    You're having a joke with us, aren't you maskell?
 
 
 
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