Are women made for careers? Watch

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Magnanimity
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#21
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#21
(Original post by ten bob)
What do they do in Africa? The men do the hard labour and the women look after the children and the home.
But this is not an African society. And probably in the caveman days we did live by the men are the hunter gatherers thing. But office jobs etc. which is what most of us will have on here (we probably won't be doing heavy lifting or brick laying) can be managed by either sex.

Our lives don't follow nature. If everything were natural we'd be out hunting animals etc. It seems that you would reject women working because you deem it unnatural, but I don't see you giving up your car or TV because guess what, they're also unnatural.

We can go to the shops and buy food (in fact, most women do the shopping) There really isn't any need for a hunter gatherer mentality anymore.
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the__billy
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#22
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They have a career...In the kitchen. I jest.
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ten bob
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#23
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#23
(Original post by junglemonkey)
But this is not an African society. And probably in the caveman days we did live by the men are the hunter gatherers thing. But office jobs etc. which is what most of us will have on here (we probably won't be doing heavy lifting or brick laying) can be managed by either sex.

Our lives don't follow nature. If everything were natural we'd be out hunting animals etc. It seems that you would reject women working because you deem it unnatural, but I don't see you giving up your car or TV because guess what, they're also unnatural.

We can go to the shops and buy food (in fact, most women do the shopping) There really isn't any need for a hunter gatherer mentality anymore.
The women in my office are very emotional, and they are not the best people to deal with high pressure situations. They just crumble. Women also cry too much.

They shouldn't be trusted with anything important.
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Magnanimity
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#24
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#24
(Original post by ten bob)
The women in my office are very emotional, and they are not the best people to deal with high pressure situations. They just crumble. Women also cry too much.

They shouldn't be trusted with anything important.
That's just hilarious.
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the_alba
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#25
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#25
(Original post by ten bob)
. Women, the fairer sex, were placed here to look after their men and children.

I'm an ardent feminist.

But if women were made to have long, successful careers, why are they biologically programmed to be incapacitated when they become mothers?
No, you're not an ardent feminist. If you believe women were 'put here' to 'look after' their offspring and menfolk, you are categorically not a feminist. The feminist argument would have it that while women perform one important half of the reproductive equation, they evolved alongside men and have every claim to equal rights, based on their equal intellectual abilities and behaviours. Only the fact of men's greater physical strength and the thousands of years of cultural conditioning that took place once men realized they could domestically enslave and intellectually patronize women and take all the opportunities for themselves has led to some ignorant throwbacks deluding themselves that 'women were put on earth' for the sole purpose of looking after them, and that the phrase 'fairer sex' is anything other than an insulting Victorian antiquity.

(Plus: women aren't 'incapacitated' when they become mothers; they are simply asked to choose how much paid leave to take, and whether to extend this into unpaid leave. Look at the French Justice Minister, Rachida Dati, for instance. She only had five days off after giving birth, before getting back to running the French legal system. Hardly the sign of incapacity.
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yesioo
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I do not want my wife to have a career. She might have a job, but raising our family will be a priority.
Good luck finding a woman like that.
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ten bob
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#27
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(Original post by the_alba)
No, you're not an ardent feminist. If you believe women were 'put here' to 'look after' their offspring and menfolk, you are categorically not a feminist. The feminist argument would have it that while women perform one important half of the reproductive equation, they evolved alongside men and have every claim to equal rights, based on their equal intellectual abilities and behaviours. Only the fact of men's greater physical strength and the thousands of years of cultural conditioning that took place once men realized they could domestically enslave and intellectually patronize women and take all the opportunities for themselves has led to some ignorant throwbacks deluding themselves that 'women were put on earth' for the sole purpose of looking after them, and that the phrase 'fairer sex' is anything other than an insulting Victorian antiquity.

(Plus: women aren't 'incapacitated' when they become mothers; they are simply asked to choose how much paid leave to take, and whether to extend this into unpaid leave. Look at the French Justice Minister, Rachida Dati, for instance. She only had five days off after giving birth, before getting back to running the French legal system. Hardly the sign of incapacity.

Only because Sarkozy told her to.
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ten bob
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#28
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(Original post by yesioo)
Good luck finding a woman like that.
Well I found one.

Educated at Warwick but knows why she is on this planet - to iron my shirts and cook my tea.
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Locke54
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#29
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(Original post by venuism)
Maybe a culinary career.
Everyone knows men are the best chefs...
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yesioo
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#30
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Educated at Warwick but knows why she is on this planet - to iron my shirts and cook my tea.
Congratulations. :laughing:. Now all you need to do is bring home the bacon.
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ten bob
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#31
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(Original post by yesioo)
Congratulations. :laughing:. Now all you need to do is bring home the bacon.
That's taken care of.
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56gs47qr0ghe9454fe268st
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#32
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(Original post by ten bob)
It has been claimed this week that women will be hit hardest by the recession, with many sources citing time off for children as the reason for many being lined up for redundancy. On one hand this makes sense - who do you hire, the ever present male or the intermittant female? You certainly get more for your money when you splash out on a Y chromosome.

This topic has thrown up an interesting point - were women ever intended to have careers? Whether or not you believe in God, we are on this Earth for a reason. Men were construted to lift heavy things and earn a crust. Women, the fairer sex, were placed here to look after their men and children.

This balance continued, with sucess, for centuries. However, the advent of feminism and the emancipation of women have caused all matter of confusion to the traditional, right ways of living. Women want to do a man's job in addition to their own.

Perhaps the recession will remind women of why they are really here?

I'm not saying that women can't have a career - in fact I'm an ardent feminist.

But if women were made to have long, successful careers, why are they biologically programmed to be incapacitated when they become mothers?
It takes two to make a baby. Barring the actual pregnancy, the only reason women have to have more time off to look after children is because of the sexist attitudes in our society. There is no reason at all why the dad can't stay home with the poorly child or do the school run but it rarely happens.
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Magnanimity
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(Original post by Pavlik)
I wouldn't be so confident of that. Women are slightly less intelligent on average, and they most certainly have different behaviours and dispositions to men. In fact it is only in an environment such as ours, in which women are prodded into imitating men, that they do not appear more feminine and that the difference is not more obvious.
Hmm my higher results put me in the top 0.2% of the country... I disagree.
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56gs47qr0ghe9454fe268st
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#34
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(Original post by Pavlik)
I wouldn't be so confident of that. Women are slightly less intelligent on average, and they most certainly have different behaviours and dispositions to men. In fact it is only in an environment such as ours, in which women are prodded into imitating men, that they do not appear more feminine and that the difference is not more obvious.
Sources please.
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yesioo
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#35
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What would happen if "your woman" wanted to begin a career? Would you stand in her way? I'm just generally curious. I've never talked to anyone with your "traditional" views.
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riotstar
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#36
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(Original post by Darkness and Mist)
Homemaking and the raising of children is a very important task whether it is done by a woman or a man. I think that the reason there is such adverse reaction to a post like the OP's is the fact that the feminist movement has actively sought to reduce what is one of the most important and hard tasks in society into something that is almost degrading and meaningless. It seems like many look down on people who choose to care for their family full time, this to me is just sickening I have tremendous respect for anyone regardless of gender who does it.

Yes women should have all the oppurtunites of men and be able to work, I just dont like the lack of respect that seems to flood in the direction of people who want to be homemakers or feel that a traditional nuclear family is important.
I do agree with this - anyone, whether male or female who chooses to stay and look after the home is doing no wrong and I definitely don't frown down on them or anything. It's a perfectly valid choice to make if the other half in the relationship is perfectly capable of providing enough income to support them. It's the assumption that it should, without exception, be the woman that gets people worked up, I think.

I find it sick that people frown down upon 'househusbands' or whatever you want to call them too. All these dimwits who go on about how a 'real man' should go out and earn money and that their wife should stay home and clean can stop beating their chests like apes, and perhaps learn to do a bit of cooking themselves so they don't have to live in fear that they'll be eating microwave Rustler's burgers forever if they don't find someone who'll feed their sorry arses. Ideally I think all duties are to be shared to some extent, if someone works full time but helps out a little on the weekend perhaps, and whoever does most of the housework gets themselves a few hours part time work for some stimulation.
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56gs47qr0ghe9454fe268st
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#37
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(Original post by Pavlik)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4183166.stm

I'm not providing a source that women have a different disposition to men, because this is something obvious that a discriminating person will have noticed himself.
I would argue that gender roles are socially constructed, and if women behave in a more "feminine" (could you qualify this?) way in other societies that is because of social conditioning. Perhaps women behave in a more "masculine" (qualify) way in our society because the sexism in our society has lead them to believe that being seen as typically female can limit their opportunities.

As for the source, thats one controversial study. I would argue that the results of IQ tests are arbitary because they are generally constructed by males, and may well test in a way that favours the (average) male brain.


About the second part of the article, if certain fields are seen as more "male", such as maths or science, males children may be more inclined to pursue these areas, and females may be discouraged if they are made to feel that they are not things girls are supposed to pursue, or that females are less capable. Its a self fulfilling prophecy.
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cpj1987
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#38
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(Original post by ten bob)
What do they do in Africa? The men do the hard labour and the women look after the children and the home.
We're not in Africa. Hard labour and childcare aren't the only two options in this society.
Nobody's denying that men are better are carrying massive, heavy objects; but there are many, many jobs that don't involve lifting and carrying.
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snorty_swirl
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#39
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Humans have evolved to serve on purpose, and one purpose alone. To have sex and reproduce. Ok men are generally stronger to provide food by hunting and to construct shelters, whilst women are geared to have children and care for them. The majority of carrers are a human invention that dont really further our survival
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punktopia
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#40
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No one is "made" for careers - believe it or not, nature and capitalism don't go hand in hand.
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