English a second language for one in seven school children Watch

L i b
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#21
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#21
Does this statistic include all those ******* Welsh and Gaelic speakers too? Nig-nogs in their own country, eh?

Take your petty racist nonsense elsewhere.
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john1987
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#22
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#22
(Original post by Citizen Zero)
Most "non natives" already declare themselves British first, ethnicity second (i.e. British Asian, British Born Chinese)...so what's the problem?
Identity is should be more than just a couple of words to hide behind when it's convenient.

If you've lived in Luton, Leicester, Bradford, Kingston (Surrey) or many areas of central London, you will see that mass assimilation in areas where immigrants settle in packs is not always as easy as words can make it sound.
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Carl
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#23
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#23
(Original post by john1987)
Identity is should be more than just a couple of words to hide behind when it's convenient.

If you've lived in Luton, Leicester, Bradford, Kingston (Surrey) or many areas of central London, you will see that mass assimilation in areas where immigrants settle in packs is not always as easy as words can make it sound.
Packs? Do you not mean groups?

the racist undertones are less than subtle
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numb3rb0y
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#24
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#24
(Original post by john1987)
Identity is should be more than just a couple of words to hide behind when it's convenient.

If you've lived in Luton, Leicester, Bradford, Kingston (Surrey) or many areas of central London, you will see that mass assimilation in areas where immigrants settle in packs is not always as easy as words can make it sound.
"packs"? Seriously?

:no:
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jonny23563
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#25
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#25
To be honest I don't see what's wrong with them having it as a second language. If you went to Spain and had children there they would speak Spanish as a second language - is that a bad thing?
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cactussed
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#26
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#26
Why should having English as a second language be detrimental? It doesn't mean they cannot speak it fluently, just that it isn't the language they speak mostly at home. If you went to see British emigrant families in Spain or France, I doubt many of their children would speak French or Spanish at home, even if they were perfectly fluent outside.
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Gremlins
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#27
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#27
Given the benefits bilingualism brings, shouldn't we be positively encouraging this? Infact, all British children should be taught Urdu from the age of three!
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Citizen Zero
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#28
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#28
(Original post by john1987)
Identity is should be more than just a couple of words to hide behind when it's convenient.

If you've lived in Luton, Leicester, Bradford, Kingston (Surrey) or many areas of central London, you will see that mass assimilation in areas where immigrants settle in packs is not always as easy as words can make it sound.
:confused: You yourself said that you'd be willing to accept 'foreigners' if they adopted a joint identity. And now you're saying they only claim a joint identity out of convenience?

These people are doing exactly what you want, but now you disagree with it?

What exactly do you want?
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john1987
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#29
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#29
(Original post by L i b)
Does this statistic include all those ******* Welsh and Gaelic speakers too? Nig-nogs in their own country, eh?

Take your petty racist nonsense elsewhere.
Where have I been racist in this thread? I'd prefer if you didn't brand me without at least giving topical evidence for your assumptions.

FYI, firstly, I personally think Northern Ireland should be made a part of Ireland. With Wales, it's more difficult as they rely on the success of the British economy to some extent due to the collapse of the British manufacturing and mining industry etc. and because it's been hit heavily by the current recession. The Isle of Anglesey may not survive at all.

Interestingly, Brian Friel tackles the same kind of issues surrounding national usurping in his play Translations. We invaded Ireland and have persisted to greatly irradiate and lessen their culture ever since. We don't belong there, because we are not indigenous to their lands.

Secondly, Welsh and Gaelic are indigenous languages of the British and Irish isles, so why should we be expected to learn other languages in our own country just to get educated? FYI, there are many schools in Wales and Ireland that teach children in Welsh and Gaelic, their own language in their own country.
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Sine
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#30
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#30
So what??? English isn't my first language. :teeth:
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john1987
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#31
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#31
(Original post by numb3rb0y)
"packs"? Seriously?

:no:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pack

5c) c. An organized troop having common interests: a Cub Scout pack.

Have we really got so paranoid that we're arguing over whether to use the word "pack" or "group" just because we're describing a group of people in a conversation that happens to be about immigration?

I was thinking of the phrase "pack mentality", which develops when people of very similar beliefs spend most of their time together and see little else aside from that common belief set.
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Gremlins
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#32
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#32
(Original post by john1987)
Secondly, Welsh and Gaelic are indigenous languages of the British and Irish isles, so why should we be expected to learn other languages in our own country just to get educated? FYI, there are many schools in Wales and Ireland that teach children in Welsh and Gaelic, their own language in their own country.
Pffft. Lousy English immigrants, never learn proper Brythonic! What is the world coming to?

BLE MAE'R GYMRAEG!?
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thesuperficial
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#33
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#33
I don't really understand your point, there are plently of british children in this country who start school barely being able to communicate. They make life just as difficult for teachers.

Anyway. Being billingual is something that should be encouraged. Its a fantastic thing and I really envy anyone who can speak two languages.
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john1987
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Citizen Zero)
:confused: You yourself said that you'd be willing to accept 'foreigners' if they adopted a joint identity. And now you're saying they only claim a joint identity out of convenience?
There are immigrants who only claim a joint identity when and where it suits them, but then there are those who are genuine in wanting to assimilate.

It's that simple. You're generalising about an entire, no, many different entire groups of people which you've put all together as one, whereas I am taking a more realistic approach.
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Lachlan
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#35
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#35
Can we not just blow up Wales or something? That should lessen the problem slightly.

I would not be against limiting immigration more but to suggest a total freeze is simply unrealistic, also this article is not very specific as to what the data actually means.
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forsaken_earth
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#36
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#36
English isn't my first language, but that doesn't mean I wasn't brought up speaking it. I currently have two offers from Edinburgh and Bristol to read English Literature.

I doubt the fact im bilingual has had a 'detrimental effect' on any school children lol.
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Pocket Calculator
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#37
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#37
english being a second language doesn't mean they can't speak it fluently, does it? what a load of crap.
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numb3rb0y
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#38
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#38
(Original post by john1987)
There are immigrants who only claim a joint identity when and where it suits them, but then there are those who are genuine in wanting to assimilate.

It's that simple. You're generalising about an entire, no, many different entire groups of people which you've put all together as one, whereas I am taking a more realistic approach.
I'd like to think that English tradition involves respect for liberty, which means the liberty to insult soldiers and stick to your own community if you so wish, as long as you're not hurting anyone.
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L i b
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#39
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#39
(Original post by john1987)
Where have I been racist in this thread? I'd prefer if you didn't brand me without at least giving topical evidence for your assumptions.
Oh come off it, we all know exactly what this thread is about.

FYI, firstly, I personally think Northern Ireland should be made a part of Ireland.
Oh great, so as well as being an extremist British nationalist, you're an extremist Irish nationalist too?

We invaded Ireland and have persisted to greatly irradiate and lessen their culture ever since. We don't belong there, because we are not indigenous to their lands.
Well, we didn't really, but so what? The English, ie the Anglo-Saxons, invaded England and replaced its existing culture.

Secondly, Welsh and Gaelic are indigenous languages of the British and Irish isles, so why should we be expected to learn other languages in our own country just to get educated? FYI, there are many schools in Wales and Ireland that teach children in Welsh and Gaelic, their own language in their own country.
Yet the vast majority of Gaelic and Welsh speaking children in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are in English-medium schools.
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taheki
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#40
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#40
You can't make a debate out of material from the Daily Mail.

This answer is always this:
NOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooOooOoOoOoooooo oooo
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