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    (Original post by Nouvelle vague)
    ...as perfection is imperfection
    Oooh I see where we're going with this....war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength, amirite? :awesome:
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    Uh Hur, 1984 ftw!
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    (Original post by Nouvelle vague)
    Uh Hur, 1984 ftw!
    Oh yeahhhh :love:
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    Utopia for the majority of people would be a large perpetual world war.

    People need a common cause to be happy - a war would provide.
    People need something to look foreward to - end of war.
    People live too long - a war would stop this.
    People need to hate to be happy - war provides something to hate.
    People need something to love to be happy - people would love their own side.
    People need death to be imminant to do anything and enjoy everything - war provides this.
    War provides many things, happiness is one of them.
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    1984 ftw - everyone happy in their own way.
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    (Original post by unarmed)
    just started thinking.

    Will we ever get to the point of where we live in a Utopian future?
    What would it be like?

    i wonder why someone ant done a Utopia/dystopia rating for countries or something probably too many things to consider.

    i would consider UK to be like 50-60 out of 100 (100 being Utopia)
    Based on what criteria, exactly? Living standards, per capita income, access to healthcare, population density? Equally, is this a political utopia (Thomas Moore, hell even Zamyatin's perfectly utopian We or Plato's Republic?).

    More pertinent is, perhaps, the question of when and how the nation state will merge into larger units, and whether these larger units will result in a more 'equal' distribution of resources and social welfare. I don't see a 'utopia', based on the model of the nation state, as a laudable or possible aim.
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    I'd be happy with a future that doesn't include absolute poverty anywhere in the world.

    I personally would much prefer something 'Brave New World'esque than 1984
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    I think this is what all humans desire. But even in a "utopia", people will find problems. One man's "utopia" is another man's dystopia. And vice versa.

    Still, something that works well and harmoniously is better than something that everyone agrees with.
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    (Original post by Catsmeat)
    Based on what criteria, exactly? Living standards, per capita income, access to healthcare, population density? Equally, is this a political utopia (Thomas Moore, hell even Zamyatin's perfectly utopian We or Plato's Republic?).

    More pertinent is, perhaps, the question of when and how the nation state will merge into larger units, and whether these larger units will result in a more 'equal' distribution of resources and social welfare. I don't see a 'utopia', based on the model of the nation state, as a laudable or possible aim.

    happyness level
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    (Original post by unarmed)
    happyness level
    Which is a factor largely unquantifiable, affected by a person's biochemistry, socio-economic status and relationships, none of which are stable. Unless this utopia is one by which people achieve joy through drug use, which would include its own negatives (drug-related deaths, downs, whatever), you may have some problems ever attaining that utopia ...
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    Nah, people are too different.

    It'll be interesting to see what the development of the internet results in though...
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    (Original post by Liquidus Zeromus)
    I think this is what all humans desire. But even in a "utopia", people will find problems. One man's "utopia" is another man's dystopia. And vice versa.

    Still, something that works well and harmoniously is better than something that everyone agrees with.
    True, and something that works well and harmoniously would be better than what we have today.
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    (Original post by Psyche05)
    True, and something that works well and harmoniously would be better than what we have today.
    Don't you think life would be a bit boring without any chaos?

    Not to mention, would the human race progress much further if there were no wars and conflict?
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    (Original post by Jeff Hunter)
    Don't you think life would be a bit boring without any chaos?

    Not to mention, would the human race progress much further if there were no wars and conflict?
    Boring? Maybe, but I think boredom is a worthy price to pay in exchange for peace, universal application and adherence to human rights etc.

    The human race might progress faster with war and conflict, but I have faith that any scientific or technological breakthrough which might be achieve in war can be achieved in peace, it might be slower but again that is a price worth paying.
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    (Original post by unarmed)
    just started thinking.

    Will we ever get to the point of where we live in a Utopian future?
    What would it be like?

    i wonder why someone ant done a Utopia/dystopia rating for countries or something probably too many things to consider.

    i would consider UK to be like 50-60 out of 100 (100 being Utopia)
    The imperfection (and incompetence of many) humans, in both moral and intellectual terms, makes it impossible to have a Utopia. Even if this were to be ignored, the exact nature of a utopia cannot possibly be unanimously agreed upon.

    And your suggestion that there should be a 'utopian rating' for countries is pretty absurd, let's face it. What would be the criteria to determine your special 'utopian index' by?
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    (Original post by Jeff Hunter)
    Don't you think life would be a bit boring without any chaos?

    Not to mention, would the human race progress much further if there were no wars and conflict?
    Well, duh.

    What I meant myself was that if we define utopia as a world which everyone agrees on and is happy with, I think that's pretty much impossible. It's better to have something that works than something that everyone agrees on.

    But I don't think that the current system works, really. One argument against democracy, maybe. People can't unanimously agree on utopia, which democracy supposedly strives for. It is better to have a wise and thorough vision for the future taking into account a balance between function and ideals rather than one which is built on appeasing all parties.

    Our elected representatives are more concerned with what people think about them, how many votes they have at the next election, rather than objective reality. And it's unfair, in our system in particular, that a government favours one half of the population over another, that it speaks for one social group despite often being elected on a minority vote.

    Democracy is just a lesser evil out of all political systems, in many cases. It can be improved. It isn't perfect. It's far from perfect. There are better systems than democracy which are yet to be realised.
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    (Original post by Psyche05)
    Boring? Maybe, but I think boredom is a worthy price to pay in exchange for peace, universal application and adherence to human rights etc.

    The human race might progress faster with war and conflict, but I have faith that any scientific or technological breakthrough which might be achieve in war can be achieved in peace, it might be slower but again that is a price worth paying.
    As much as I abhor war, Hilter and such, it creates a place in history.
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    A Utopia seems to be more of a philosophical concept than an actual goal, as it's not something which can ever truly be realised. It is highly likely that there will always be problems in life to be overcome, regardless of our level of technological advancement, as our very existence is the cause of many of these problems e.g global warming, war, overpopulation, starvation etc. However, it is something we should strive for nevertheless and improvements can certainly be made, despite the fact life will never be perfect.

    It's also perhaps worth mentioning that if humanity reached a point in our existence where life was perfect, it would not remain that way for long, not only because of human nature but because humans would inevitably become complacent. Would scientific and technological progress still continue at the same rate if we no longer had anything to strive for or would society begin to collapse as people no longer need to work and education levels begin to fall? Humanity would probably grind to a halt, before our civilisation begins to stagnate.
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    Maybe Utopia doesn't need to include us -

    Extinction of humans = Utopia?

    Nevertheless, mass murder could be considered as a stepping stone towards that goal.
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    (Original post by menaa-x)
    It will never happen. One person's Utopia is another persons Dystopia.
    That is why an actual utopia would have to actually be a framework for utopia. It would have to be a situation in which a person could join or start a social arrangement of his choice, whilst also not having to support any social arrangements he didn't like.

    In my mind, a system in which people are at liberty to do as they choose with their person and property, and so violence is only used to rotect them from force, fraud and theft, would provide such a framework.
 
 
 
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