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    (Original post by ElfishMatt666)
    That's the word, as used in everyday language. But think of all the other uses it has, outside of the "normal" sphere of language. Think of how the word is used, that gives you its real meaning, not the dictionary... Or does a dictionary contain the TRUTH? If you disagree look at all the other words that have different meanings in different situations, "your mum" "wicked" "banging" in the "urban" sphere in gneral, words take on meanings through there use, more than from the definition. Even the weord chance "you haven't got a chance of escaping this death-ray" obviously doesn't mean that, as there is always a chance. A "chance card" is meant to be a lucky thing. "I'd take that chance" implies a specific type of chance, a likely one. I could go on, but I won't, becuase I can predict the quality of the response. "wicked".

    Best Wishes
    I have NO TIME for slang and other vulgarities that tend to distort the language. They have no reason to exist.
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    (Original post by Zaki)
    I have NO TIME for slang and other vulgarities that tend to distort the language. They have no reason to exist.
    They have as much reason to exist as any other word. What do you think language is? The list of words in the dictionary? I have NO TIME for people who are that narrow-minded...
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    (Original post by Zaki)
    I have NO TIME for slang and other vulgarities that tend to distort the language. They have no reason to exist.
    We're not distorting language. We're outlining why looking for definitions that incorporate everything we call chance. Dictionaries can be useful in looking up how to use words, but they are not the be-all-and-end-all and most certainly aren't infallible.

    I'm confused by you. You ask 'what is chance?' implying that you're looking for a definition that, well, by definition won't leave out anything we call chance. I'm saying that's impossible and silly, but absolutely does not mean that we don't know what chance means or that we can't use it in conversation.
    Then you call us silly and say that the definition is in the dictionary. If you're happy with that, why ask?

    For instance, I say 'I'll take my chance' before casting a large bet whilst gambling. I ask 'what are the chances?' when I see something extraordinary happen. I say that something has happened by chance. I say 'you haven't got a chance' to someone who attempts to do something difficult. What is in common between all these cases? If you can find something, you're one of the best philosophers who's ever lived.
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    (Original post by ElfishMatt666)
    They have as much reason to exist as any other word. What do you think language is? The list of words in the dictionary? I have NO TIME for people who are that narrow-minded...

    ANY word that does not express a CLEAR concept has NO JUSTIFICATION for its existence and should be abandoned - if the language is not to be corrupted and can remain capable of fulfilling its mission of being a vehicle for communication.
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    (Original post by Zaki)
    And can it actually exist on its own - or is it merely an artefact of free will?
    What is 'the'?
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    (Original post by Aleandcynicism)
    We're not distorting language. We're outlining why looking for definitions that incorporate everything we call chance. Dictionaries can be useful in looking up how to use words, but they are not the be-all-and-end-all and most certainly aren't infallible.

    I'm confused by you. You ask 'what is chance?' implying that you're looking for a definition that, well, by definition won't leave out anything we call chance. I'm saying that's impossible and silly, but absolutely does not mean that we don't know what chance means or that we can't use it in conversation.
    Then you call us silly and say that the definition is in the dictionary. If you're happy with that, why ask?

    For instance, I say 'I'll take my chance' before casting a large bet whilst gambling. I ask 'what are the chances?' when I see something extraordinary happen. I say that something has happened by chance. I say 'you haven't got a chance' to someone who attempts to do something difficult. What is in common between all these cases? If you can find something, you're one of the best philosophers who's ever lived.

    If you wish to avoid distorting the language, then remove ALL slang from your vocabulary. Language is for communicating CLEAR concepts - not for muddling up communication.
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    (Original post by AN0)
    What is 'the'?
    An article word. Why?
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    (Original post by Zaki)
    ANY word that does not express a CLEAR concept has NO JUSTIFICATION for its existence and should be abandoned - if the language is not to be corrupted and can remain capable of fulfilling its mission of being a vehicle for communication.
    The word "justification" stems from "justice".

    By your logic, we should not have the words "justice" "moral standards - i.e. good or bad", "free will"... Almost any word that refers to a metaphysic. Just an FYI, your logic is really really bad.
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    (Original post by Zaki)
    If you wish to avoid distorting the language, then remove ALL slang from your vocabulary. Language is for communicating CLEAR concepts - not for muddling up communication.
    Also, do some research into language. Linguists in fact find that slang is an inherent and important part of language that demonstrates the evolution of a language.
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    (Original post by Zaki)
    An article word. Why?
    An article word that has "no clear concept" and it is quite difficult to find any sufficient definition of "the", is it not? What does "the" mean? Can you define it? By your own logic, it also shouldn't exist.
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    (Original post by Zaki)
    If you wish to avoid distorting the language, then remove ALL slang from your vocabulary. Language is for communicating CLEAR concepts - not for muddling up communication.
    You could start by following your own advice.

    Thus far you've spewed a bizarre psychobabble not unlike what is read in modern pseudoscience pop books. You assume your statements to be absolute truth, which no one else can realize, unless they completely agree with you.

    I have a link that you should seriously consider:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narciss...ality_disorder
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    (Original post by Zaki)
    I take it you've forgotten the definition of "Matter" that you learned when you did high school physics, eh? Physicist my foot!
    Precisely, actually. Since the 'high school' definition isn't quite right; and thats exactly why quantum mechanics exists in the first place. You shouldn't argue about things you do not understand.
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    (Original post by Zaki)
    If you wish to avoid distorting the language, then remove ALL slang from your vocabulary. Language is for communicating CLEAR concepts - not for muddling up communication.
    See that thing that's gone completely over your head? It's this discussion.

    Do you consider yourself a troll? If not, respond to my questions.
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    (Original post by FireGarden)
    Precisely, actually. Since the 'high school' definition isn't quite right; and thats exactly why quantum mechanics exists in the first place. You shouldn't argue about things you do not understand.
    Oh brother! So Matter is no longer anything that has weight and occupies space? Sheeeeesh!

    Anyway, you still don't get away with it because on your new definition you now have to accept that Matter's nature is spontaneous - and therefore it has free will and hence intelligence.
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    (Original post by poolopis01)
    You could start by following your own advice.

    Thus far you've spewed a bizarre psychobabble not unlike what is read in modern pseudoscience pop books. You assume your statements to be absolute truth, which no one else can realize, unless they completely agree with you.

    I have a link that you should seriously consider:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narciss...ality_disorder
    What utter nonsense!
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    An article word that has "no clear concept" and it is quite difficult to find any sufficient definition of "the", is it not? What does "the" mean? Can you define it? By your own logic, it also shouldn't exist.
    Actually, it does express a very clear concept. Perhaps just too subtle for YOU, eh?
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    The word "justification" stems from "justice".

    By your logic, we should not have the words "justice" "moral standards - i.e. good or bad", "free will"... Almost any word that refers to a metaphysic. Just an FYI, your logic is really really bad.
    You fellows are now resorting to just making animal noises. You've given up on logic, haven't you? I'm confident, however, that ANYONE that is serious-minded can see the clarity in what I've said - and the contrast with your nonsense.
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    (Original post by Zaki)
    Actually, it does express a very clear concept. Perhaps just too subtle for YOU, eh?
    Instead of being a patronising ass, maybe you could 'enlighten' him?
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    (Original post by Zaki)
    Oh brother! So Matter is no longer anything that has weight and occupies space? Sheeeeesh!

    Anyway, you still don't get away with it because on your new definition you now have to accept that Matter's nature is spontaneous - and therefore it has free will and hence intelligence.
    Weight is a force experienced if matter is within a gravitational field, not an actual property of matter itself; however it is a property that it is affected by gravitational fields. The occupies space thing is why the old definition isn't correct. Matter sure does occupy space, but just try to pin the blasted thing down. Particles can occupy two (or more..) distinct positions at once. According to classical physics, this isn't possible (the principle of classical physics that this violates is that if you have two mutually exclusive descriptions, then one must be wrong. Classical physics says "particle must be here, or here." which is wrong) In fact, if you slowed down a particle down to it literally having no motion (and hence no momentum) then that particle, as according to QM, has infinite wavelength and so is everywhere in the universe at the same time. So yeah, matter does weird things, and is indeed spontaneous at these scales.

    Your premise that if it is spontaneous then it must have intelligence is faulty. Matter is probabilistic, but that doesn't mean we are calculating probabilities of what it might choose to do; There is no evidence of 'choice', nor any reason to believe so over simply being random. There are certain extensions to QM which preserve the universe as a deterministic machine, the most popular of which is the Many Worlds theory, and the probabilities we have to use are necessary simply because you can't measure what is fundamental without imposing restrictions on yourself. Either way, the chance exists; either you stick with classic QM and probability is intrinsic to the universes behaviour, or if you prefer the Many Worlds idea, all these probabilities manifest themselves as a measure of how likely you are to be in a certain timeline.
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    (Original post by Aleandcynicism)
    Instead of being a patronising ass, maybe you could 'enlighten' him?
    NO ONE can show light to a blind man. Especially one that is willfully so.
 
 
 
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