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    (Original post by geoking)
    Yeah I was talking about the west and that kid was not sexist, he was mentally unstable.

    There is no rape culture over here. How can something that happens to so few people be called a "culture"?

    The parts in bold show that you're ranting about a world that doesn't exist - sort your head out.

    Problem is people like you, a kid still in sixth form, thinks you understand the complexities of the world. You don't. Sexism barely exists any more and if it does, it's because some is WANTING TO BE A ****, nothing more, nothing less. There is no widely held belief that one gender is superior to another, and if people believe this, then it'll be due to something that's entirely unrelated to gender and a more deep rooted emotional issue.
    I know you were talking about the west but that isn't the point; I was saying that feminism is still needed because of non-western societies. In western society, I do consider it valid to say that, to an extent, feminism isn't nearly as important as it used to be.

    Okay aside from the fact that you said "parts" when clearly it was one part, I must point out that I am not the only one here making somewhat exaggerated sentences. The part in bold shows the part where you are ranting about something that suggests you don't know much about some problems in western society. Just because not everyone experiences it doesn't make it something that doesn't need to be addressed.

    Not only that, but I promise you, people can be sexist without intending to be *******s. The two examples I previously stated are, I promise you, examples of this. They didn't think they were doing anything wrong whatsoever.

    Also, I never, not once said that I understand the complexities of the world. Don't make silly sweeping statements that are based on nothing. Besides, what makes you think that you understand the complexities of the world? All anyone can do is try to understand some complexities of the world.

    And, back on topic, feminism is needed, to different extents in different parts of the world, and I hope that one day you will be less blind to sexism.
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    (Original post by kudzi.c)
    What would be your ideal future then? In about three lines, and thanks for sharing your opinion.
    Hmm, good question. I think an ideal future would just for there to be no differences according to gender other than our bodies.
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    (Original post by Birkenhead)
    Let me get this straight. As a feminist, you want gender equality, but you do not believe that men should be able to call themselves 'feminists' purely on account of their gender.

    Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.
    Google Charles Clymer or look thru hus twitter feed and you'll see what happens when men label themselves as feminists= I'm Mr nice guy why are women still ignoring me
    He even once tweeted how being a feminist gets you more pussy. What makes him different apart from being an opportunist

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    (Original post by BobbieShamrock)
    And I think you have misunderstood everything I have said. To me you are coming across as closed minded with your incredibly rigid view of what feminism is. Feminism is whatever the feminists make of it, and far more than just a dictionary definition.

    In regards to all the awful things happening to women in other parts of the world... I do support feminism in countries with severe women's rights issues, but in the western world, I don't believe it's the right way forward.
    I honestly do not understand why I am coming across as close-minded, and I apologise for that. However, I do think that Feminism needs some kind of definition and I do believe that in western society we can still use feminism (despite it not necessarily being needed as much as other cultures).

    I'm not going to try to attack you because really you didn't say anything horrible, I mean at least you support gender equality.
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    (Original post by kudzi.c)
    I do get your point. And of course I believe you should fight for things that affect you at home as a feminist or as yourself or a womanist etc. And it does make it harder fighting race and gender battles, but for me personally I'm willing to do both as a feminist and as a black girl looking for equality... Call yourself whatever as long as we're making a change.
    I'm not saying it takes away your feminist status. I have grown up in the uk and everything that happens here to women happens double to black women. So in a way feminism is essential but not currently yes womanism suits me better. I believe that's what's lacking in feminism as a whole even in Intersectional feminism alot of erasure and hierarchy

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    (Original post by radicalboujie)
    Google Charles Clymer or look thru hus twitter feed and you'll see what happens when men label themselves as feminists= I'm Mr nice guy why are women still ignoring me
    He even once tweeted how being a feminist gets you more pussy. What makes him different apart from being an opportunist

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    Your logic is that one man calling himself a feminist for opportunistic ends is good reason to bar all men from calling themselves feminists.

    By this token can we bar all women from calling themselves feminists because you have a flagrant disregard for the idea of gender equality?
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    (Original post by Birkenhead)
    Feminism in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries combated discrimination against women in areas like not having the right to elect their representatives or being barred from entering certain professions. It was a noble movement which helped to and succeeded in correcting many social ills, and there is little doubt in my mind that the vast majority of men and women who attack feminism today sympathise with this previous incarnation.

    Feminism today seeks to continue this energy seemingly largely because the individuals involved enjoy feeling part of something bigger and part of a group and/or are inherently resentful individuals with a chip on their shoulder towards men or society in general. The young women who join the feminist ranks today do so almost always, I believe, because they want to be in on the social 'brand' that feminism has become, something to show off with a badge on their jackets, and not because they genuinely see or care to protest any actual wrong in society. I doubt most of the suffragettes even bothered to call themselves 'feminists', if that was even a term then. Many of today's cohort call themselves feminists because they fear that to not do so is to demonstrate a humiliating submissiveness to the male-orchestrated 'patriarchy', and that by calling themselves a feminist they can ensure that others will see them as a self-respecting person. Others do so because they think it marks them out as intelligent and well-read, simply by verbally associating themselves with an old political movement.

    Its battlegrounds are not voting rights or legally-enforced glass ceilings so that all women might have the opportunity to succeed but in bullying organisations to have absolute equality of outcome in employment and pay of men and women, regardless of how many apply/are involved of each gender, the merit of the individuals themselves or even the type of work they are doing and for how many hours they are doing it. It seeks out things to complain about on increasingly nebulous grounds, such as attacking pop songs that they claim encourage sexual assault and even rape, demanding that these songs and other media are forcibly removed from public dissemination rather than inviting individuals to consider not tolerating them privately. All the while, they almost universally claim to be a movement that supports gender equality but their voices are almost silent if present at all on issues of male discrimination such as custody laws.

    Many of the measures that many of its members have pushed for or supports now that they are in place are actively sexist towards men. All-female shortlists in parliament, for example, is an affront to democracy that bans half of the population from standing for a party in a seat on account of their gender. The intention is that more women are represented in parliament. The problem is that it isn't because of some patriarchal conspiracy that women are underepresented here, or likely in any other example. It's because far fewer women put themselves forward in the first place. There are more women in the UK cabinet proportionate to the number of women MPs than there are men, purely because of this kind of nonsensical sexist selection.

    The movement today is incomparable to what it was such as to justify viewing it as a totally different one altogether. It seeks to impose a damaging and short-sighted equality of outcome, it wants to see and protest about the patriarchy at every turn for the sake of protest and it cares nothing for gender equality but rather the increasing of female privilege in society.

    I don't know of anyone who would consider the contemporary feminist movement as the flag-bearer for the fight against issues like FGM, fights against serious things like that are now seemingly carried out largely by individuals on social media, politicians and specialist pressure groups. I do know that a large number of people, however, consider it a melting pot of intolerance, selfishness and irrelevance, and I am one of them.
    I do understand why you think many of these things. Yes, I agree that many issues feminists deal with in modern times are not nearly as huge or important as the previous issues such as equal pay or the right to vote. I also agree that some people may subscribe to the identity of being a feminist just to have the opportunity to feel empowered and to hate men and blame men when they become offended.

    I also understand that you may think that the only reason for the differences in gender for being employed in places such as parliament or other such areas is "because far fewer women put themselves forward in the first place." However I do believe that at least part of the reason for differences such as this is because of the fact that we experience and internalise some behaviours depending on whether we are male or female. For example, from a young age girls are given "girl toys" and boys are given "toys for boys". You could certainly argue that by exposing children as young as a day old to "gender norms" such as this, this could have an influence on these children growing up. Yes, it's not an issue that is killing people or that is as serious as equal pay, but it is still an issue of controll, even if subconcious.

    And although I do see your point that some feminists only seem to accept female problems, I must disagree as many of the feminists I know will happily discuss male issues too. Why can't males wear skirts? Why is it sometimes considered "unmanly" to be submissive or to be emotional? (Not always, but sometimes). These issues also should change, as well as female issues. Feminism shouldn't focus only on female problems, but male problems too, at least in western society.

    I also believe that feminism is much more important in countries where females still do not have the right to basic things, such as education or the right to decide who they marry.

    So, although I do understand much of what you have said, you could argue completely against this, and I do believe that feminism is still something that is worth sticking around.
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    (Original post by kudzi.c)
    First of all, feminism isn't some clique where we all know each other and believe the same thing. Just like religion and party politics there are different degrees of opinions. I am not responsible for what another feminist says or believes just as I'm not responsible for what other christians believe. Sorting out our PR isn't that simple.
    And secondly, to the helping men, why not ey? I don't mind.
    It is as simple as mainstream feminist organisations employing PR reps and marketing consultants to raise awareness of the work they do. I would be astounded if they do not already do this, but at the moment there isn't enough engagement with the media.
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    (Original post by Birkenhead)
    Your logic is that one man calling himself a feminist for opportunistic ends is good reason to bar all men from calling themselves feminists.

    By this token can we bar all women from calling themselves feminists because you have a flagrant disregard for the idea of gender equality?
    I named Clymer because thus guy has made £££ for tweeting or attending feminist conference and saying the most generic phrases. May men r following his lead not for the righteous equality bit but his success in being opportunist hence male feminists

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    (Original post by radicalboujie)
    I named Clymer because thus guy has made £££ for tweeting or attending feminist conference and saying the most generic phrases. May men r following his lead not for the righteous equality bit but his success in being opportunist hence male feminists

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    I'm afraid I only have a working proficiency of the English language.
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    (Original post by kudzi.c)
    So you think, to be general about it, white privilege allows many guys to just ignore the issue or claim to have no part in the cause or cures of issues others face?
    Yes, it is so easy for some of us to ignore issues that don't directly effect us. Doing so, of course, is not being a responsible member of society.
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    (Original post by Birkenhead)
    I'm afraid I only have a working proficiency of the English language.
    don't give a sh*t m8

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    (Original post by radicalboujie)
    don't give a sh*t m8

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    Charmed.
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    (Original post by kudzi.c)
    So what's your solution? Change the name (feminism to egalitarianism) or just accept that life was better when we had a bread winner and (some) women would happily stay at home? How do we overcome the illusion of empowerment and freedom?
    By that I meant that under modernism and feminism, a woman is not free. There's no easy solution, but feminism is not the answer
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    (Original post by lmk97)
    By that I meant that under modernism and feminism, a woman is not free. There's no easy solution, but feminism is not the answer
    Ahh sorry for the misunderstanding on my part. Thanks for sharing your opinion though. Personally I don't feel free but with feminism I feel as if I'm moving in the right direction, but of course you don't NEED feminism in order to do that
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    Feminism, or the correct medical term ‘Feminazitremens’, is a horrible debilitating disease of the mind that is characterised by making generalisations, false accusations and a tendency to look for any excuse to be offended. Symptoms include chronic nagging and the habit of kicking up a fuss about relatively small things in Western countries when compared to the real gender divisions in third world countries.


    Those who suffer from feminism tend to ignore the blatant injustices that affect the male sex, including longer prison sentences, less chance of winning custody battles, a far higher chance of violent assault and a higher mortality rate. These are casually waved off as being a product of male power and thus men are to blame for everything wrong with the world. Feminism is often spread via the mouth, with the very young being most vulnerable. FCKH8 have even capitalised upon this by using 4 year olds to shout swear words in the name of feminism in their adverts.


    Feminists often suffer from hallucinations about a mythical entity known as ‘the patriarchy’, which may be understood to mean a small upper-class echelon of rich white males who pull the strings at the top; unfortunately, feminists can’t seem to understand that not every man in the world is in the position to go to Oxbridge and straight into a job that pays £100K a year, thus feminists identify all men as being a problem.


    Despite shouting ‘privilege’ at every opportunity, sufferers of feminism tend to come from a privileged background of their own and will barely take into account their own privileges. Notable examples include privately educated Jessica Valenti and Laurie Penny, whose hardships at private school seemed to have made life so difficult for them that they decided to write for the Guardian and other champagne socialist outlets.


    Feminism is most commonly found in bourgeoisie women who are primarily interested in protecting their own class privilege. This is why they prefer to focus on 'sexism' in the likes of video games, television and movies than on the fact that millions of families don't have enough food because of the likes of Esther McVey and Theresa May. Unless you 100% agree with a feminist then you automatically hate woman and don’t believe in equality.


    Many studies have gone into the causes of feminism, with the most conclusive evidence suggesting that jealously between females and poor socialisation skills are the main source. In the rare instance that a man is infected he may have succumbed to the deadly ‘White Knight Syndrome’. There is, as of yet, no known cure to feminism, but trials with the recently developed Humanism vaccine have proven successful in several studies. If you think you may have feminism then please get yourself tested!
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    (Original post by Viceroy)
    Yes, it is so easy for some of us to ignore issues that don't directly effect us. Doing so, of course, is not being a responsible member of society.
    That's well said, thanks for sharing your opinion. The world would be a lot nicer if we all took other peoples issues into consideration.
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    (Original post by Viceroy)
    The world is basically run by straight, Christian, white guys. Those of us who belong to that group have the responsibility to care about issues that effect people who don't -- There are LGBT issues we should care about, women's issues we should care about, issues effecting ethnic/racial/religious minorities we should care about. It doesn't make us any 'worse off' to care about others, nor does it make issues that effect straight, Christian, white men any less important, so why the stink about it?
    I would argue that we do all of this currently.
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    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    It is as simple as mainstream feminist organisations employing PR reps and marketing consultants to raise awareness of the work they do. I would be astounded if they do not already do this, but at the moment there isn't enough engagement with the media.
    I guess it seems simple in theory, in practice I'm not comfortable with being mass represented by a couple of women who may live lives that are completely different to mine. The mainstream for some doesn't work for all. And to be honest I don't know many solely feminist organisations who have a big enough following to take on that role.
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    (Original post by Evening)
    Feminism, or the correct medical term ‘Feminazitremens’, is a horrible debilitating disease of the mind that is characterised by making generalisations, false accusations and a tendency to look for any excuse to be offended. Symptoms include chronic nagging and the habit of kicking up a fuss about relatively small things in Western countries when compared to the real gender divisions in third world countries.


    Those who suffer from feminism tend to ignore the blatant injustices that affect the male sex, including longer prison sentences, less chance of winning custody battles, a far higher chance of violent assault and a higher mortality rate. These are casually waved off as being a product of male power and thus men are to blame for everything wrong with the world. Feminism is often spread via the mouth, with the very young being most vulnerable. FCKH8 have even capitalised upon this by using 4 year olds to shout swear words in the name of feminism in their adverts.


    Feminists often suffer from hallucinations about a mythical entity known as ‘the patriarchy’, which may be understood to mean a small upper-class echelon of rich white males who pull the strings at the top; unfortunately, feminists can’t seem to understand that not every man in the world is in the position to go to Oxbridge and straight into a job that pays £100K a year, thus feminists identify all men as being a problem.


    Despite shouting ‘privilege’ at every opportunity, sufferers of feminism tend to come from a privileged background of their own and will barely take into account their own privileges. Notable examples include privately educated Jessica Valenti and Laurie Penny, whose hardships at private school seemed to have made life so difficult for them that they decided to write for the Guardian and other champagne socialist outlets.


    Feminism is most commonly found in bourgeoisie women who are primarily interested in protecting their own class privilege. This is why they prefer to focus on 'sexism' in the likes of video games, television and movies than on the fact that millions of families don't have enough food because of the likes of Esther McVey and Theresa May. Unless you 100% agree with a feminist then you automatically hate woman and don’t believe in equality.


    Many studies have gone into the causes of feminism, with the most conclusive evidence suggesting that jealously between females and poor socialisation skills are the main source. In the rare instance that a man is infected he may have succumbed to the deadly ‘White Knight Syndrome’. There is, as of yet, no known cure to feminism, but trials with the recently developed Humanism vaccine have proven successful in several studies. If you think you may have feminism then please get yourself tested!
    A nugget of comedy gold that I will rep when I next can.
 
 
 
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