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    (Original post by Placement_stud)
    One could also say the minority of professionals end up becoming MDs yet this is still used to compare potential earnings. I don't see owning a successful business any less likely plus the earning potential of a good business far outweighs salary. I've known very small, seemingly moderate businesses earning into the millions. So few people are even touching the quarter mill mark on a salary.
    There's a reason why top lawyers and bankers often branch off to set up their own firms. It's because there's a lot more money to be made by running your own business, you're responsible and in charge of financial obligations and you also call all of the shots on decisions made whether that's attracting new clients or maintaining relationships with old ones. This is the same regardless of the sector you work in. Running your own business is only extremely risky if you allow it to be and make idiotic decisions. People will say you might go bust during a recession but you can also be laid off during these times as companies have to make hard decisions and cut cloth accordingly.

    Most businesses fail because:

    a) Poor planning and model
    b) Bad client management - all about intrapersonal and interpersonal skills - people skills
    c) Lack of UVP and entering a market flooded with competition on local, national and international levels
    d) Failure to put the UVP across to potential customers or clients with clarity of what you can actually offer them
    e) Poor leadership

    If you can't put all of that into a thorough business plan and outline everything plus more, the banks should tell you where to go. Anyone who has not thought it through in depth and put together a strategic model based on real financial clout should not be trusted with a business loan of any amount.
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    (Original post by Placement_stud)
    One could also say the minority of professionals end up becoming MDs yet this is still used to compare potential earnings. I don't see owning a successful business any less likely plus the earning potential of a good business far outweighs salary. I've known very small, seemingly moderate businesses earning into the millions. So few people are even touching the quarter mill mark on a salary.
    They might be "earning" millions in revenue but does not equate to profit nor salary.

    You don't have to convince me - I'm someone who decided to go self employed after working in industry for too many years.

    But you and others are making a massive assumption that most business are successful. They are not - the majority of business will fail.

    And then you have to come up with a business concept that you hope will be successful. Many don't have the ability to do this mainly due to lack of ideas, expertise, reputation or start up revenvue.


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    (Original post by Europhile)
    Because a lot of people do not have a good business plan that factors in a long term strategy. Most businesses fail due to poor planning and the vast majority of them, those that receive business loans, should never have been signed off in the first place. I've seen several businesses go through and the vast majority of them have had idiots with a lack of foresight running them.
    Dyson and Branson must have been idiots then if that's your logic.

    You've got to come up with that successful business plan in the first place. Many people can't do this, not for a lack of a good idea or strong business model, but purely because they haven't got the revenue/resource to be able to do it.






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    (Original post by J-SP)
    Dyson and Branson must have been idiots then if that's your logic.
    Dyson and Branson both have an immense amount of foresight. One was an innovator and one has expanded his business portfolio so successfully it really begs belief that you're mentioning such. Both of them factored everything into their planning from day one, regardless of whether that plan went onto paper to be presented at the bank or whether it was merely something they'd thought out at home in a methodical manner.

    You've got to come up with that successful business plan in the first place.
    Congratulations on stating the obvious. Everything must go into your planning including any capital you have for starting up and projected costs months, if not years down the line. Yes revenue and generating start up capital is a barrier but if you have a thorough business plan the banks will lend you money. I'm fortunate in that I wont have to borrow because I have saved up money to get going.
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    They might be "earning" millions in revenue but does not equate to salary.

    You don't have to convince me - I'm someone who decided to go self employed after working in industry for too many years.

    But you and others are making a massive assumption that most business are successful. They are not - the majority of business will fail.

    And then you have to come up with a business concept that you hope will be successful. Many don't have the ability to do this mainly due to lack of ideas, expertise, reputation or start up revenue.

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    No that's right it does not necessarily but often it does a equate to a higher salary than working for someone else. Are you going to deny that the richest people are business owners?

    There is no assumption that most business are successful but that is entirely irrelevant in any case. Most people who try to entire IB on any other highly paid career are also unsuccessful; there are often over 600s applications for a handful of positions. Many people also don't have the ability to enter IB, law, consulting...so what is your point regarding this?

    This thread is about what people 'should' aspire to and if you aspire to a maximum level of wealth, not just in terms of 'salary' but also assets, lifestyle, etc. then like Europhile said, few careers if any trump a successful business.
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    (Original post by Europhile)
    Dyson and Branson both have an immense amount of foresight. One was an innovator and one has expanded his business portfolio so successfully it really begs belief that you're mentioning such. Both of them factored everything into their planning from day one, regardless of whether that plan went onto paper to be presented at the bank or whether it was merely something they'd thought out at home in a methodical manner.


    Congratulations on stating the obvious. Everything must go into your planning including any capital you have for starting up and projected costs months, if not years down the line. Yes revenue and generating start up capital is a barrier but if you have a thorough business plan the banks will lend you money. I'm fortunate in that I wont have to borrow because I have saved up money to get going.
    I really wish there was a lot of sense to what you are talking about. Your experiences are very different to the realities that most switched on business owners experience. You are fortunate.


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    (Original post by Placement_stud)
    No that's right it does not necessarily but often it does a equate to a higher salary than working for someone else. Are you going to deny that the richest people are business owners?

    There is no assumption that most business are successful but that is entirely irrelevant in any case. Most people who try to entire IB on any other highly paid career are also unsuccessful; there are often over 600s applications for a handful of positions. Many people also don't have the ability to enter IB, law, consulting...so what is your point regarding this?

    This thread is about what people 'should' aspire to and if you aspire to a maximum level of wealth, not just in terms of 'salary' but also assets, lifestyle, etc. then like Europhile said, few careers if any trump a successful business.
    An unsuccessful job application cannot be compared to a unsuccessful business.






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    (Original post by little_wizard123)
    Civil service starting salaries can be £35k, so with 37 hour weeks with flexitime thrown in. This is a pretty great life in terms of free time, and the starting salary/promotion opportunities are pretty decent too.
    Really? Which department? Doing what? :/
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    (Original post by Abdul-Karim)
    This statement is generally reserved for one of two categories of individuals: The underclass and those who have under-performed in formal education.
    Well I don't fit into either category, unless you consider A*A*A* at A Level and an Oxbridge education under-performing.
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    I really wish there was a lot of sense to what you are talking about. Your experiences are very different to the realities that most switched on business owners experience. You are fortunate.
    Have you ever run a business because I take it from the way you talk that you actually haven't.
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    (Original post by Europhile)
    Have you ever run a business because I take it from the way you talk that you actually haven't.
    I could say the same about you!

    But yes, it's doing well thank you.


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    (Original post by Europhile)
    There's a reason why top lawyers and bankers often branch off to set up their own firms. It's because there's a lot more money to be made by running your own business, you're responsible and in charge of financial obligations and you also call all of the shots on decisions made whether that's attracting new clients or maintaining relationships with old ones. This is the same regardless of the sector you work in. Running your own business is only extremely risky if you allow it to be and make idiotic decisions. People will say you might go bust during a recession but you can also be laid off during these times as companies have to make hard decisions and cut cloth accordingly.

    Most businesses fail because:

    a) Poor planning and model
    b) Bad client management - all about intrapersonal and interpersonal skills - people skills
    c) Lack of UVP and entering a market flooded with competition on local, national and international levels
    d) Failure to put the UVP across to potential customers or clients with clarity of what you can actually offer them
    e) Poor leadership

    If you can't put all of that into a thorough business plan and outline everything plus more, the banks should tell you where to go. Anyone who has not thought it through in depth and put together a strategic model based on real financial clout should not be trusted with a business loan of any amount.
    The main failures of business are bad management, poor organisation and complete lack of strategy. Basically people not knowing what they're doing. Also some businesses are inherently more risky than others, it's not always such a huge gamble.
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    An unsuccessful job application cannot be compared to a unsuccessful business.

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    When you're talking about the probability of success, yes it can.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Really? Which department? Doing what? :/
    Statistician. Not even one of the main departments. There's a stats allowance for all stats officers, and I also get the MSc allowance (which is about 2.5k on top a year).
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    (Original post by Europhile)
    Why do people want to slave away at law and investment banking firms making other people rich when they can set up their own business and become extremely rich themselves. I just don't understand why people like Abdul-Karim would get out of bed in the morning to go and make these other directors richer whilst he has to work overtime in a high pressured environment. What is your motivation?

    For me, money isn't everything and I want to help others but I still want to make enough to live comfortably. I can do both by becoming a teacher and setting up my own language school abroad whereby I am the person in charge and I call the shots. I'm effectively killing two birds with one stone.

    Why would I work for someone else when I can do that? You will essentially be slaving away at a law firm being shouted at by your superiors and I'll be heading home from work for a nice margarita near the beach in Europe. Now tell me who's got it all worked out.
    This.

    I think you get people who are naive and unimaginative and corporate law/IB are basically two known formulas to make decentish money without imagination or personal risk.

    I have a friend who worked for an IB pre-2008 for the same reasons. To be fair pay opportunity was better and he did make a lot (well over £200k pa) however he hated it, hated the hours the people and the fact that when you start making decent money, compensation is geared to trap you in the life.

    He quit to start a business thinking that he would take a big financial hit but enjoy his life. As it turned out, he ended up making even more money yet he only works about 10-5 these days and essentially does what the **** he wants.

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    (Original post by Jay84)
    This.

    I think you get people who are naive and unimaginative and corporate law/IB are basically two known formulas to make decentish money without imagination or personal risk.

    I have a friend who worked for an IB pre-2008 for the same reasons. To be fair pay opportunity was better and he did make a lot (well over £200k pa) however he hated it, hated the hours the people and the fact that when you start making decent money, compensation is geared to trap you in the life.

    He quit to start a business thinking that he would take a big financial hit but enjoy his life. As it turned out, he ended up making even more money yet he only works about 10-5 these days and essentially does what the **** he wants.

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    What business did he go into out of interest? I'm genuinely curious as it is something I might consider post-IB.

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    (Original post by Asexual Demigod)
    Well I don't fit into either category, unless you consider A*A*A* at A Level and an Oxbridge education under-performing.
    what do you do now? just curious
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    A lot of people "slave" away for a bit so they can build up their knowledge, expertise, contacts, reputation and most importantly financially save up.

    I couldn't have started my business without my industry experience. By slaving away, it got me to where I am. I think a lot of business owners go into the industries you are slating, knowing it helps them in the future, as the above example shows.


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    (Original post by Jay84)
    This.

    I think you get people who are naive and unimaginative and corporate law/IB are basically two known formulas to make decentish money without imagination or personal risk.

    I have a friend who worked for an IB pre-2008 for the same reasons. To be fair pay opportunity was better and he did make a lot (well over £200k pa) however he hated it, hated the hours the people and the fact that when you start making decent money, compensation is geared to trap you in the life.

    He quit to start a business thinking that he would take a big financial hit but enjoy his life. As it turned out, he ended up making even more money yet he only works about 10-5 these days and essentially does what the **** he wants.

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    You haven't a clue mate. If someone's smart enough to make it into IB, then they probably a smart enough to realise the exit opps.
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    (Original post by Abdul-Karim)
    You haven't a clue mate. If someone's smart enough to make it into IB, then they probably a smart enough to realise the exit opps.
    Oh the irony of someone still in university telling people they haven't a clue. Please enlighten us all with your previous employment history and business acumen.
 
 
 
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