Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta

Most of the main Green policies are terrifying watch

Announcements
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aph)
    You don't have infinite resources to allow for it.
    infinite growth does not require infinite resources.
    • Very Important Poster
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    Very Important Poster
    (Original post by cole-slaw)
    infinite growth does not require infinite resources.
    How else would you do it
    .
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aph)
    How else would you do it
    .
    progress, obviously.
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Aph)
    How else would you do it
    .
    Well given that most of our economy is based on systems that need, for all intents and purposes, no resources...

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Very Important Poster
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    Very Important Poster
    (Original post by cole-slaw)
    progress, obviously.
    obviously:rolleyes:
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Well given that most of our economy is based on systems that need, for all intents and purposes, no resources...

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    no, most of our energy is from non renewables and anything which involves selling involves resources so I don't see how you think that.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aph)
    obviously:rolleyes:
    no, most of our energy is from non renewables and anything which involves selling involves resources so I don't see how you think that.

    Well yes, it is obvious to anyone with knowledge of economics.
    • Very Important Poster
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    Very Important Poster
    (Original post by cole-slaw)
    Well yes, it is obvious to anyone with knowledge of economics.
    Care to impart your oh so great wisdom on me:rolleyes:
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aph)
    Care to impart your oh so great wisdom on me:rolleyes:

    scientific progress is the ultimate fundamental driver of economic growth.
    As long as we have science, we will have growth.
    • Very Important Poster
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    Very Important Poster
    (Original post by cole-slaw)
    scientific progress is the ultimate fundamental driver of economic growth.
    As long as we have science, we will have growth.
    Science
    1) needs to be separated from the private sector.
    2) consumes materials to fuel progress.
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aph)
    2) consumes materials to fuel progress.
    Ever heard of Asteroid mining?


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Very Important Poster
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    Very Important Poster
    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    Ever heard of Asteroid mining?


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Assuming we could develop the technology to mine and then send the minerals back to earth without burning up. We are limited to our solar system at best, although getting to the Oort Cloud and back in a single generation would be impressive, until we develop FTL if FTL is even posible.
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aph)
    Assuming we could develop the technology to mine and then send the minerals back to earth without burning up. We are limited to our solar system at best, although getting to the Oort Cloud and back in a single generation would be impressive, until we develop FTL if FTL is even posible.
    Lol it will be several tens of thousands of years before all the resources in the solar system will run out. Technology is being researched already and presumably in several decades time it could be a reality.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Very Important Poster
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    Very Important Poster
    (Original post by Johann von Gauss)
    FTL is almost certainly not possible; our best bet is multi-generational convoys using distortions in space-time continuum such as wormholes to reduce travel times.
    But that's still thousands of years and we'd be talking about basicly picking one solar system clear and then moving on and destroying another.
    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    Lol it will be several tens of thousands of years before all the resources in the solar system will run out. Technology is being researched already and presumably in several decades time it could be a reality.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    in your opinion, you have no idea what the mineral wealth of the solar system is. And again you are hedging your bets on 'this will happen in the future' where as we should take the pessimistic line.
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aph)
    But that's still thousands of years and we'd be talking about basicly picking one solar system clear and then moving on and destroying another.
    in your opinion, you have no idea what the mineral wealth of the solar system is. And again you are hedging your bets on 'this will happen in the future' where as we should take the pessimistic line.
    The mineral wealth of the solar system is astounding Aph! Practically every element occurs somewhere in the solar system, asteroids themselves have common elements like iron, nickel & titanium which are used everywhere in society. The notion that we will run out of resources in the near future is laughable within the solar system. I am hedging my bets on this future because it is going to happen - we can send rovers to Mars and operate them from Earth but we can't send one to an asteroid? Admittedly there are difficulties but these are well within humanities reach in the coming decades.

    The Green Party isn't the answer, especially after poor old Natalie's interview the other day which had some very enlightening revelations.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RFowler)
    I have no problem in admitting I don't have that much of an understanding of economics. But I do understand that infinite economic growth on a finite planet is just not possible with the way we are doing things now, that is my area of concern. I don't have to be an expert car mechanic to see when a car has a flat tyre.
    It's not nearly as obvious as you make it sound.

    First, growth doesn't necessarily imply greater resource consumption. If I write a book that is better than any other book ever written, it is not necessary for more resources to be used to disseminate it. We can pulp other books and reprint them with my words, and still come out ahead. That example may sound contrived, but it's more common than you think. Computers have spent about fifty years becoming exponentially more capable while the input of natural resources required to build them has actually reduced.

    Second, the earth is not a closed system. There is a constant influx of new resources in the form of energy from the sun. There is also a huge store of untapped energy on the earth (fissile and fusible materials, ultimately including water). While it's still some limit, human energy consumption is a minute fraction of a percent of solar energy flux alone. If you consider the earth as a closed system it might look like we've almost colonised it out, but even this is largely an artefact of our perception, since most of us spend a disproportionate amount of time in the very most densely populated areas. We have barely even scratched the surface of what is possible.
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Aph)
    But that's still thousands of years and we'd be talking about basicly picking one solar system clear and then moving on and destroying another.
    in your opinion, you have no idea what the mineral wealth of the solar system is. And again you are hedging your bets on 'this will happen in the future' where as we should take the pessimistic line.
    Surely if we're to take the pessimistic line we may as well just take the attitude of (and I'm sure a mod is going to delete this is worded poorly): "we may as well just 'end it' now"
    • Very Important Poster
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    Very Important Poster
    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    The mineral wealth of the solar system is astounding Aph! Practically every element occurs somewhere in the solar system, asteroids themselves have common elements like iron, nickel & titanium which are used everywhere in society. The notion that we will run out of resources in the near future is laughable within the solar system. I am hedging my bets on this future because it is going to happen - we can send rovers to Mars and operate them from Earth but we can't send one to an asteroid? Admittedly there are difficulties but these are well within humanities reach in the coming decades.

    The Green Party isn't the answer, especially after poor old Natalie's interview the other day which had some very enlightening revelations.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Well we could only realistically get to the asteroid belt and sure we could land on the asteroid but we couldn't send anything up which is big enough to mine significant amounts of minerals and then how many rovers do you know which have come back to earth? The issue is with launching off of a body which has no air thus nothing to push up against.

    What at might they be?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Observatory)
    It's not nearly as obvious as you make it sound.

    First, growth doesn't necessarily imply greater resource consumption. If I write a book that is better than any other book ever written, it is not necessary for more resources to be used to disseminate it. We can pulp other books and reprint them with my words, and still come out ahead. That example may sound contrived, but it's more common than you think. Computers have spent about fifty years becoming exponentially more capable while the input of natural resources required to build them has actually reduced.

    Second, the earth is not a closed system. There is a constant influx of new resources in the form of energy from the sun. There is also a huge store of untapped energy on the earth (fissile and fusible materials, ultimately including water). While it's still some limit, human energy consumption is a minute fraction of a percent of solar energy flux alone. If you consider the earth as a closed system it might look like we've almost colonised it out, but even this is largely an artefact of our perception, since most of us spend a disproportionate amount of time in the very most densely populated areas. We have barely even scratched the surface of what is possible.
    Absolutely.

    Further, as we head almost inexorably towards fusion power and competition for the moon's Helium 3, the Greens are advocating policies that will result in other countries outcompeting us and getting access to practically infinite energy, as well as fusion based weaponry.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aph)
    Well we could only realistically get to the asteroid belt and sure we could land on the asteroid but we couldn't send anything up which is big enough to mine significant amounts of minerals and then how many rovers do you know which have come back to earth? The issue is with launching off of a body which has no air thus nothing to push up against.

    What at might they be?
    With fusion powered spacecraft we could practicalise constant acceleration so that we could reach alpha centauriy in, if i recall correctly, 100 years or so.
    • Very Important Poster
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    Very Important Poster
    (Original post by 41b)
    Absolutely.

    As we head almost inexorably towards fusion power and competition for the moon's Helium 3, the Greens are advocating policies that will result in other countries outcompeting us and getting access to practically infinite energy, as well as fusion based weaponry.
    Just a quick note fusion weapons already exist. What do you think H-bombs are?
 
 
 
Poll
Do you agree with the proposed ban on plastic straws and cotton buds?
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.